Bryan Hoggarth
HOGGARDS of Barton le Willows
Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:47pm

Hi Michael,
I'm aware that the 1911, 1901 censuses and his Marriage certificate indicate a birth for Henry in 1870ish but nothing else supports that. Therefore it must be wrong. Barton le Willows may have had a larger population in the 1800s but it would have still been a small place and to have had a Henry HOGGARD born in 1856 with father John and another Henry HOGGARD born in 1870ish with father called John (of whose birth no trace exists) is just not believable.

To somewhat repeat what my previous message said, and maybe more clearly:

This is the census and some relevant BMDs for John HOGGARD the father of Henry who was born in 1865 and not in c. 1870 as the later records erroneously say. Maybe Henry did not want his wife Hannah to know how old he was or maybe he just remembered it wrong.

Births Mar 1844
HOGGARD John Malton 24 385
(Barton le Willows is in the Mlaton Registration District)

1851 census Ho107-2369 folio 750
Barton le Willows
John HOGGARD Head Mar 47 Farm Labourer YKS Hutton Ambo
Hannah do Wife Mar 42 YKS Westow
Jane do Daur unm 18 YKS Barton le W
Ann do Daur 11 Scholar YKS do
John do Son 7 do YKS do
Hannah do Daur 5 do YKS do
Charlotte do Daur 2 YKS do

1861 census Rg9-3622 folio 40
Willerby, YKS
John FRANKISH Head Mar 40 Farmer 600 acres YKS Foxholes
his family
John HOGGARTH Serv Unm 18 Pl. Boy YKS Barton

Marriages Dec qtr 1864
BREMBLEY James Scarbro 9d 638
Brumbley James Scarbro' 9d 638
Hogard John Scarbro 9d 638
Hope Charlotte Scarbro 9d 638
Ward Sarah Holroyd Scarbro 9d 638

Births Mar qtr 1865
Hoggart Henry Malton 9d 338
(Barton le Willows is in the Malton Regisrtation District)

1871 census Rg10-4816 folio 45
24 Roscoe Street, Scarborough
John HOGGART Head Mar 28 General Labourer Garton Nr Driffield
Charlotte do Wife mar 26 Little Driffield
George do Son 6 Scholar YKS Scarbro
Sarah do Daur 3 Scholar YKS do
Tom do Son 1 YKS do
(Note Garton sounds like Barton)

Births Mar qtr 1874
Hoggart Charlotte Scarbro' 9d 331

1881 census Rg11-4802 folio 62
1 Durham Cottgs, Scarborough
John HOGGART Head Mar 37 Labre Barton le Willows
Charlotte do Wife Mar 35 Driffield
George do Son 16 Farm Servant do
Sarah Ann do daur 14 Servant Scarborough
Tom do Son 12 Scholar Scarborough
Lizzie? do Daur 10 Scholar Scarborough
Charlotte do Daur 7 Scholar Scarborough
Robt do Son 5 Scholar Scarborough
John do Son 3months Scarborough

In 1881 Mary GARDHAM is unmarried Doestic Servant in Scarborough age 27 born Scalby.

Deaths Jun qtr 1883
HOGGART Charlotte 34 Scarbro' 9d 255

Marriages Dec qtr 1883
CAREY John Francis Scarbro' 9d 735
DOVE Alice Scarborough 9d 735
GARDHAM Mary Scarbro' 9d 735
HAGGART John Scarbro' 9d 735

Births Mar qtr 1888
HOGGART Edmund Scarbro 9d 346

I cannot find the family in the 1891 census.

1901 census Rg13-4529 folio 74
54 Durham St. Scarborough
John HOGGART Head Mar 55 Builders Carter YKS Barton le Willows
Mary do Wife Mar 41 YKS Scalby
Edmund do Son Unm 14 Billard? Maker YKS Scarborough

This I believe is that death of Henry. The certificate should confirm that it is your Henry and the age shows that he was born in about 1865 and not 1870.
Deaths Jun qtr 1942
Hoggard Henry 77 Scarbro' 9d 387

This census record shows Henry HOGGARD has an aunt called Mary who was born in c. 1854 in Barton le willows.
1891 census Rg12-3898 folio 25
Flaxton, YKS
John PALMER Head Mar 35 Farm labourer BRK Harwell
Mary do Wife Mar 36 YKS Barton le Willows
Henry HOGGARD nephew Unm 27 Farm Labourer YKS do

This is likley to be their marriage
Marriages Dec qtr 1877
HOGGARD Mary Malton 9d 766
PALMER John Malton 9d 766

1911 census shows that John PALMER and Mary HOGGARD had no children.

As shown in previous message this is Mary with her parents.
1861 census Rg9-3628 folio 69
Barton le Willows, YKS
John HOGGETT Head Mar 56 Farm Labourer YKS Huttons Ambo
Han'h do Wife 51 YKS Westow?
James do son 9 YKS Barton le Willows
Mary do Daur 6 YKS do
Robt do Grandson 2 YKS do
(Note this is the same grandparents as had the Grandson Henry in 1871 and a son John in 1851)

  • Hoggards of Barton le willowsMichael white, Sun Dec 15 8:41pm
    I have traced over 60 ancestors for my direct family tree and funny enough just having problems over the closest relatives. Henry is in the 1901 census as being born in 1870 in Barton le Willows and... more
    • HOGGARDS of Barton le Willows — Bryan Hoggarth, Mon Dec 16 4:47pm
      • Hoggards of Bartonmichael White, Mon Dec 16 6:29pm
        Thanks for the insight here Bryan!... So what we are saying is... that the Henry Hoggard father of my grandmother Alice Mary was born as it says on the census 1871 Of John Hoggard Barton in 1864! was ... more
        • HOGGARDS of Barton & Huttons AmbroBryan Hoggarth, Tue Dec 17 10:45am
          Hi Michael, Have you noticed how the timing on these posts seems to be still on British Summer time. The 1871 census does have Henry age 7 which would make him born 1863/64 but I think his... more
          • Hoggardsmichael white, Fri Dec 20 10:35am
            Hi Bynan, Thanks for the info and support. I have orders lots of certs so I hope to get further and solved. Just two problems with other families now I add for your info the details of John Hoggard... more
            • Henry HoggardMichael White, Sun Jan 12 5:46pm
              Hi Brian, Happy new year… regards: 1911 – Census: 42,Town Street, Old Malton, Malton Henry Hoggard - Farm Laborer – 41 - born 1870 - Barton Le Willows 1901 – Census: 26,Ashvillle Street, York. Henry... more
              • Henry the bastard HOGGARD?Bryan Hoggarth, Mon Jan 13 3:29pm
                Hi Michael, So looks like your Henry may have been this illegitimate child of Ann HOGGARD and we've been wrong to chase up his uncle John the son of John and Hannah. Bastards are not unusual and more ... more
                • Henry/ann HoggardMichael white, Tue Jan 14 7:14pm
                  Bryan In retrospect I believe that Ann Smith was Ann Hoggard as there are no other Ann Hoggards from Barton Le Willows.It must be her! In the 1861 census where she is a maid in service she is a... more
                • Henry/ann Hoggardmichael White, Tue Jan 14 1:52pm
                  Bryan, If we assume Ann Smih to be the correct Ann Hoggard and she married to Willam Smith in 1869 their son Charles was born in 1863 over 1 year before she had Henry as Ann Hoggard? thoughts Michael
                  • Henry/Ann HoggardMichael White, Tue Jan 14 1:53pm
                    According to the 1871 census regards my last comments michael
                • Henry HoggardMichael White, Tue Jan 14 12:14pm
                  Hi Bryan, No it just states Ann Hoggard mother Barton Le Willows. As we know Henry has entered in his marriage details under father: John Hoggard. In the 1871 census in FYP I found a John Hoggard... more
                • Charles HOGGARD b 1863Bryan Hoggarth, Mon Jan 13 5:07pm
                  I thought it may help to investigate what happened to Charles (brother of Henry) and his mother Ann HOGGARD who married William SMITH. 1911 census Rg14-25925 46 Unity Grove Harrogate Charles HOGGARD... more
          • Time CheckRod Hogarth, Tue Dec 17 12:01pm
            Thanks for nudging me about the timestamp error Bryan. I've now fixed it so it should really, really be GMT/UTC.
      • HOGGARDs of Barton le WillowsBryan Hoggarth, Mon Dec 16 4:49pm
        OOOOPS I said " but it would have still been a small place and to have had a Henry HOGGARD born in 1856 with father John and another Henry HOGGARD born in 1870ish with father called John (of whose... more