Bryan Hoggarth
HOGGARDS of Barton & Huttons Ambro
Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:45am
213.246.87.39

Hi Michael,
Have you noticed how the timing on these posts seems to be still on British Summer time.

The 1871 census does have Henry age 7 which would make him born 1863/64 but I think his Grandparents have his age one year too old.
in 1881 his age is given as 16 which would put him as born 1864/65.
Henry may not have been raised by his Grandparents. It may be that he was just staying there for a while - maybe his mother was having another child at that time or his parents were moving house. The hiring days in the area may have been near the end of March. They were either then or in some areas were in September.

For checking GRO BMD records I generally use Freebmd and the only possible birth for Henry is, as I said before, this one:
Births Mar qtr 1865
Hoggart Henry Malton 9d 338
(Barton le Willows is in the Malton registration District)

This is after the marriage of his parents and so no reason to think him a bastard.
Marriages Dec qtr 1864
BREMBLEY James Scarbro 9d 638
Brumbley James Scarbro' 9d 638
Hogard John Scarbro 9d 638
Hope Charlotte Scarbro 9d 638
Ward Sarah Holroyd Scarbro 9d 638

Looks like the bride was well pregnant as the birth was not less than six months after the marriage. South of the North York Moors it was common for women to have the first baby before marriage so John and Charlotte were quite respectable.

I also use FindMyPast in addition to Ancestry and Origins. They each have pros and cons. Ancestry and FMP are equivalent as to the censuses though I find Ancestry easier to use for searching generally though FMP is better for search by address. They both have different transcriptions so one may have a name or place spelt right and the other may have it wrong. FMP has the newspapers. Ancestry has the Probate Index and WW1 military records.
Origins is not great for censuses but has the York marriage licence records and an index to the probate records held at the Borthwick Institute; part of the University of York.

You should ask if your local library has access to Ancestry so you can use it for free. Also ask them if they have the 19th Century newspapers.

I would not assume anything from the spelling variations. Often our ancestors could not read nor write and the person writing the name down would use the spelling he was used to. My G Gdad Allin HOGGARTH was put down as HOGGARD in the 1881 census when he was working down near Malton.

Re the marriage of the elder John which would have been somewhen around 1820 to 1835 I also have not found it using Familysearch https://familysearch.org/search/record/results
(which is what the IGI has now become).

However the full name of Hannah can be found by the birth certificate of any of the children born after June 1837.

This is the 1851 census which shows several children to choose from:
1851 census Ho107-2369 folio 750
Barton le Willows
John HOGGARD Head Mar 47 Farm Labourer YKS Hutton Ambo
Hannah do Wife Mar 42 YKS Westow
Jane do Daur unm 18 YKS Barton le W
Ann do Daur 11 Scholar YKS do
John do Son 7 do YKS do
Hannah do Daur 5 do YKS do
Charlotte do Daur 2 YKS do

Checking for the births of those children in Freebmd:
Births Mar qtr 1840
Hoggard Ann Malton 24 356

Births Mar qtr 1844
HOGGARD John Malton 24 385

I cannot find Hannah

Births Mar qtr 1849
HOGGARD Charlotte Malton 24 473

Of those the birth of Charlotte is more certain to be the right family as the name is less common.

I suggest you check to see if the East Yorkshire FHS have transcribed the MIs (Gravestones) of any areas which your ancestors lived in. MIs can give details which you would never find elsewhere.

Bryan

  • Hoggards of Bartonmichael White, Mon Dec 16 6:29pm
    Thanks for the insight here Bryan!... So what we are saying is... that the Henry Hoggard father of my grandmother Alice Mary was born as it says on the census 1871 Of John Hoggard Barton in 1864! was ... more
    • HOGGARDS of Barton & Huttons Ambro — Bryan Hoggarth, Tue Dec 17 10:45am
      • Hoggardsmichael white, Fri Dec 20 10:35am
        Hi Bynan, Thanks for the info and support. I have orders lots of certs so I hope to get further and solved. Just two problems with other families now I add for your info the details of John Hoggard... more
        • Henry HoggardMichael White, Sun Jan 12 5:46pm
          Hi Brian, Happy new year… regards: 1911 – Census: 42,Town Street, Old Malton, Malton Henry Hoggard - Farm Laborer – 41 - born 1870 - Barton Le Willows 1901 – Census: 26,Ashvillle Street, York. Henry... more
          • Henry the bastard HOGGARD?Bryan Hoggarth, Mon Jan 13 3:29pm
            Hi Michael, So looks like your Henry may have been this illegitimate child of Ann HOGGARD and we've been wrong to chase up his uncle John the son of John and Hannah. Bastards are not unusual and more ... more
            • Henry/ann HoggardMichael white, Tue Jan 14 7:14pm
              Bryan In retrospect I believe that Ann Smith was Ann Hoggard as there are no other Ann Hoggards from Barton Le Willows.It must be her! In the 1861 census where she is a maid in service she is a... more
            • Henry/ann Hoggardmichael White, Tue Jan 14 1:52pm
              Bryan, If we assume Ann Smih to be the correct Ann Hoggard and she married to Willam Smith in 1869 their son Charles was born in 1863 over 1 year before she had Henry as Ann Hoggard? thoughts Michael
              • Henry/Ann HoggardMichael White, Tue Jan 14 1:53pm
                According to the 1871 census regards my last comments michael
            • Henry HoggardMichael White, Tue Jan 14 12:14pm
              Hi Bryan, No it just states Ann Hoggard mother Barton Le Willows. As we know Henry has entered in his marriage details under father: John Hoggard. In the 1871 census in FYP I found a John Hoggard... more
            • Charles HOGGARD b 1863Bryan Hoggarth, Mon Jan 13 5:07pm
              I thought it may help to investigate what happened to Charles (brother of Henry) and his mother Ann HOGGARD who married William SMITH. 1911 census Rg14-25925 46 Unity Grove Harrogate Charles HOGGARD... more
      • Time CheckRod Hogarth, Tue Dec 17 12:01pm
        Thanks for nudging me about the timestamp error Bryan. I've now fixed it so it should really, really be GMT/UTC.