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Michael 5260
Re: David Bari
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:33

It's okay for us to disagree about what Osborn would have done if loads of Lindbergh ransom had been found with David Bari. Since that did not happen the issue is moot. I just wanted to point out that Osborn was aware of anxious people concerning his handwriting examinations. They are the kind I call "pushy" people.

Samuel Malone was a penman and engrosser. He was a penmanship teacher and also what we would call today a calligrapher. Malone would create deeds, citations, diplomas, degrees, etc., in beautiful fancy writing.

Arthur Myers was a student of Malone's. He was learning the same craft.

Being able to produce elegant handwriting by no means prepares a person for forensic handwriting examinations. Actually, what Malone/Myers did for a living doesn't even qualify as graphology.

Speaking of graphology. A distinction should be made between graphology and forensic handwriting identification.

Graphology- this is where a practitioner attempts to analyze a handwriting in order to determine the character and personality of the writer.

Forensic handwriting identification- the specialist attempts to examine a handwriting in order to identify a writer or to eliminate a writer.

Yes they both deal with handwriting but their approach to the handwriting, and outcome of the examination, are like comparing apples to oranges.

As a matter of fact, there are two schools of Graphology. The trait stroke and the holistic approach to analyzing handwriting. You can generally expect two different opinions about the character or personality of the writer whether the analysis is based on trait stroke or holistic.

There are two big problems with Graphology that I can see.

1. An graphologist is not trained to examine handwritings with the goal to authenticate or identify.

2. They are not consistent in their opinions. Their handwriting opinions will either be correct or incorrect. Why? Because they just "look" at the writing. They will not show you, demonstrate to you, or explain to you why their opinion should be accepted or given weight as evidence. This is what is called "mere opinion". You can obtain a more reliable result using a dart board.

Gunter Haas was a Graphologist and there is no mistake about it. He belonged to The British Institute of Graphologists. Haas wrote an article for the Institute, Vol. 2, No. 1, Spring 1993 titled "Ludwig Klages". Who was Ludwig Klages? Klages was a Graphologist too. He created a complete theory of Graphology and along with Georg Meyer founded The Deutsche Graphologishe Gesellschaft(German Graphology Association) in 1894.

So we have a Graphologist(Haas) writing an article about a Graphologist(Klages).

At least the British Institute of Graphologists are honest about the kind of work their members are trained to do. They have a disclaimer:

Document Examination and Forensic Analysis (Note: B.I.G. tutors do not teach this specialist area.)

  • Re: David BariMichael, Sat Aug 18 14:43
    We'll have to agree to disagree about what Osborn would have done.... Malone was a handwriting expert for over 32 years by that date and had testified in court as one many times in multiple states.... more
    • Re: David Bari — Michael 5260, Sun Aug 19 11:33
      • Re: David BariMichael, Sun Aug 19 13:20
        I don't want to get into a back and forth so I'll say my last about Malone in this post. Yes, he was a Penman. He was also an Artist. And lastly, he was a Handwriting Expert who was qualified as one... more
        • Re: David BariMichael 5260, Sun Aug 19 16:52
          In the early days it wasn't difficult to be qualified by the courts as an expert witness on handwriting. This left the door wide open for people that had no qualifications at all to testify in court... more
          • Re: David BariMichael , Mon Aug 20 08:45
            Do you know how many "Experts" would eventually claim to believe Fisch wrote the notes - and who they were?
            • FIschRichard Sloan, Tue Aug 21 10:10
              Wish we had more samples of Fisch's handwriting.
              • Re: FIschMichael For Richard, Tue Aug 21 11:29
                Try this sample up close by clicking the magnifier:
                • Michael for Richard: FischTanialee , Sat Sep 8 19:28
                  My goodness I've been looking for samples of Fisch's writing ever since I joined this forum,years ago. How you obtained it, well I don't know but kudos to you. I find it a fascinating piece of... more
            • Re: David BariMichael 5260, Mon Aug 20 17:28
              Trendley was supposed to have told his family that he was convinced that Fisch wrote the ransom notes. That is what his family supposedly told reporters that were clamoring around Trendley's house. I ... more
            • Re: David BariAnonymous, Mon Aug 20 15:20
              Braunlich, Trendley, Goodspeed and Julia Farr who all examined the notes on 1/12/1935 under State Police guard in a Hotel in Trenton, N.J.
              • Re: David BariMichael For Anonymous, Tue Aug 21 12:03
                While I know that Braunlich and Goodspeed, both Handwriting Experts, believed the letters were altered and were prepared to testify that Hauptmann did not write the notes ... I've never seen where... more
                • Re: David BariAnonymous, Tue Aug 21 13:32
                  Michael, An April 4, 1977 N.Y. Times article by Peter Kihss about an interview with then 79 year old Hilda Zaenglein Braunlich in Clearwater, Florida discusses her views on the Hauptmann handwriting. ... more
                  • FIsh handwriting vs. Bruno'sRichard Sloan, Wed Aug 22 09:51
                    I see a few similalrities betw. Fisch's "s" when it's at the end of a word, but I would think that is common. He appears to have been fluent in English.Does anyone know for a fact that he spoke "mit... more
                    • Re: FIsh handwriting vs. Bruno'sMichael, Thu Aug 23 08:19
                      I've read report after report after report. It does look different, and there have been several explanations. The most obvious is that it was written by a different hand. It was Osborn, I believe,... more
                  • Re: David BariMichael, Wed Aug 22 07:27
                    I have this article but thanks for pointing it out nevertheless. She does appear to say in the last paragraph he could have been the writer. Much of this article agrees with her letter to Gov. Byrne... more
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