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Michael 5260
Re: David Bari
Sun Aug 19, 2018 16:52
24.185.60.218

In the early days it wasn't difficult to be qualified by the courts as an expert witness on handwriting. This left the door wide open for people that had no qualifications at all to testify in court but the judges were very lenient about letting a person testify.

Also in the early days handwriting experts came from many different areas. Bank managers, bank tellers, chemists, bookkeepers, photographers, artists, etc.

One of the earliest document examiners I found was Albert Southworth(1811-1894). Occupation? Handwriting teacher, penman, and photographer. He was one of the first to perform scientific forensic document examination in the
United States. Southworth invented a camera that enabled him to take a number of pictures on one film. In 1859, in a Massachusetts case, he used photomicrographs to demonstrate that certain writing across a fold in paper was written "after" the paper was folded.

Typical in the old days you would usually have multiple handwriting experts claiming a signature was a forgery and multiple handwriting experts on the other side claiming the signature was genuine. What you wind up with is evidential nullification. The jury doesn't know what to think about the disputed signature.

This is what Reilly was after when he claimed he would produce just as many handwriting experts saying Hauptmann did not write the ransom notes as the number of handwriting experts for the prosecution that said Hauptmann wrote the ransom notes. It didn't happen but can you imagine sitting in the jury box watching and listening to this kind of floor show?

Another thing that had to be contended with in the old days is that you could have a jury with not one juror having the ability to read and write. Fantastic but it's true. Right now we have a large number of people that cannot read or write cursive handwriting. Cursive handwriting looks like some kind of hieroglyphics to them. Another sign we are headed toward a brave new world.

I'm glad you understand the fallacy of Graphology. This is the garbage that sent Alfred Dreyfus to Devil's Island.

I've seen people who claim to be both a Graphologist and handwriting expert also. I'm surprised they do not toss in fingerprints, fiber analysis, ballistics, tool analysis, and footprints along with it.

What would you like to discuss next? We have plenty of stuff due to the courtesy of some of the true crime writers.


  • Re: David BariMichael, Sun Aug 19 13:20
    I don't want to get into a back and forth so I'll say my last about Malone in this post. Yes, he was a Penman. He was also an Artist. And lastly, he was a Handwriting Expert who was qualified as one... more
    • Re: David Bari — Michael 5260, Sun Aug 19 16:52
      • Re: David BariMichael , Mon Aug 20 08:45
        Do you know how many "Experts" would eventually claim to believe Fisch wrote the notes - and who they were?
        • FIschRichard Sloan, Tue Aug 21 10:10
          Wish we had more samples of Fisch's handwriting.
          • Re: FIschMichael For Richard, Tue Aug 21 11:29
            Try this sample up close by clicking the magnifier: https://i.imgur.com/OAcSWkJ.jpg
            • Michael for Richard: FischTanialee , Sat Sep 8 19:28
              My goodness I've been looking for samples of Fisch's writing ever since I joined this forum,years ago. How you obtained it, well I don't know but kudos to you. I find it a fascinating piece of... more
        • Re: David BariMichael 5260, Mon Aug 20 17:28
          Trendley was supposed to have told his family that he was convinced that Fisch wrote the ransom notes. That is what his family supposedly told reporters that were clamoring around Trendley's house. I ... more
        • Re: David BariAnonymous, Mon Aug 20 15:20
          Braunlich, Trendley, Goodspeed and Julia Farr who all examined the notes on 1/12/1935 under State Police guard in a Hotel in Trenton, N.J.
          • Re: David BariMichael For Anonymous, Tue Aug 21 12:03
            While I know that Braunlich and Goodspeed, both Handwriting Experts, believed the letters were altered and were prepared to testify that Hauptmann did not write the notes ... I've never seen where... more
            • Re: David BariAnonymous, Tue Aug 21 13:32
              Michael, An April 4, 1977 N.Y. Times article by Peter Kihss about an interview with then 79 year old Hilda Zaenglein Braunlich in Clearwater, Florida discusses her views on the Hauptmann handwriting. ... more
              • FIsh handwriting vs. Bruno'sRichard Sloan, Wed Aug 22 09:51
                I see a few similalrities betw. Fisch's "s" when it's at the end of a word, but I would think that is common. He appears to have been fluent in English.Does anyone know for a fact that he spoke "mit... more
                • Re: FIsh handwriting vs. Bruno'sMichael, Thu Aug 23 08:19
                  I've read report after report after report. It does look different, and there have been several explanations. The most obvious is that it was written by a different hand. It was Osborn, I believe,... more
              • Re: David BariMichael, Wed Aug 22 07:27
                I have this article but thanks for pointing it out nevertheless. She does appear to say in the last paragraph he could have been the writer. Much of this article agrees with her letter to Gov. Byrne... more
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