MirageActuallyWed Mar 7, 2012 18:14126.96.36.199I have certainly seen instances in which atheists wanted things removed from schools, and my own parents had me excused from a Nativity play once by asking that I be allowed to play one of the children in the secular Hanukkah comedy play instead. In India there is at least one specifically secular school. In the US some atheists want all public schools to be secular, which they technically are, but they don't seem to realize that there is no law in the world that could ever make all the kids and teachers they meet in school magically become secularists. The Constitution does not require people to be secularists or atheists to hold political office, although I recently read a really strange article by a fellow who is arguing religious people should be barred from public office, and his message to the religious is that it's what is best for them too. Believe it or not, he wasn't joking, going by his other writings.
Most of the atheists I have known did fine in school, with the exception of one secular satanist whose rights were violated when she was told she had to actively participate in the graduation prayer or forfeit her diploma. However, Kasey has posted here several times about her distress that schools and other public venues indoctrinate children to believe in mythology. We discussed this once here long ago and at that time she seemed to feel no religious references should be present in the educational system until university, if I understood her correctly. A desire like this by an atheist family is functionally no different than the desire a strict Muslim family might have that their children go to school in sex separated classrooms somewhere that students were required to dress traditionally and modestly. I've thought about that now and then and I still believe it's best for children to go to mixed schools because the world is mixed. However, I support the right of parents to send their kids to parochial schools, so I wouldn't object to people with Kasey's views of indoctrination forming private schools which they felt were free of that. Most countries that allow religious schools also require that those schools teach basic subjects such as math and reading at a level which results in students scoring within the range of public school students or better on standardized tests. In practice, students from religious schools in the US usually score higher, perhaps because of smaller classes. I can't imagine that an atheist school's students would score below average in core subjects. As long as they scored within or above the public school students, I have no problem with such schools forming and I am very surprised that people who feel like Kasey regarding religion have not demanded their right to teach children in a "myth free" environment by removing them from standard schools, rather than engaging in an often futile effort to purify those general schools of everything from Christmas choirs and headscarves to classes like The Bible as Literature. I'm also a bit surprised there aren't more secularist home schooling programs available. Home schooling one's kids would seem like a possibly rewarding option for rugged individualists. Home schooled kids actually score well on college entrance exams in the US on average, and I've heard that it is not significantly harder anymore for kids here who were home-schooled to get into top universities based on test scores.
- Perhaps atheists don't tend to congregate ... Baruch, Wed Mar 7 16:58because each is a rugged individualist, that came to atheism, each by their own route ... and therefore have nothing in common other than either being anti-religious or indifferent to religion.... more
- Actually Mirage, Wed Mar 7 18:14
- I think you miss the fundamental point that..... Kasey, Thu Mar 8 06:32once a child's mind has been formatted to be receptive to a particular set of religious ideas and doctrines, it is pre-conditioned to not think otherwise. That's what makes Christianity, Judaism,... more
- alright then,... Mirage, Thu Mar 8 23:00I believe you were probably exposed to this stuff as a child and perhaps you even were religious at some point. How did you escape then? Every single atheist I have known personally was raised in... more
- For once, in this different setting and... Kasey, Sat Mar 10 07:33application, the saying "The Truth will set you free" can be applied to all who have moved to Atheism. Since most societies at present in the trend of historical reckoning, most peoiple still live... more
- Progression is as much a myth as regression ;-) (nm) Baruch, Sat Mar 10 09:20
- Re: For once, in this different setting and... Mirage, Sat Mar 10 08:45Well, I won't disagree with you that secularism is on the rise in Western nations. Religious and spiritual practitioners sometimes are not safe in secular societies. For example you can be arrested... more
- Catholic to Wiccan makes sense ... Baruch, Fri Mar 9 06:52I won't be as catty as I could be here ;-) Catholics perhaps still have wonder and magic in their views ... not as realist and dry as the Protestant view. Shalom
- What...as to how Mary intercedes with her god? (nm) Kasey, Sat Mar 10 07:34
- Well ... intercedes with her husband ;-) Baruch, Sat Mar 10 09:18Mary is Shekhinah, after all, and also named Hokhmah. The daughter is Ruach HaKodesh. There are four in the divine family, not just the two, father and son. But then to see that, one would have to... more
- Re: Well ... intercedes with her husband ;-) Mirage, Sat Mar 10 17:36I think it upsets a lot of people that religions evolve over time. Also some people feel any syncretism discredits the entire faith. Mary to me is more of a reflection of the Shekhinah and the Hebrew ... more
- Re: Catholic to Wiccan makes sense ... Mirage, Fri Mar 9 10:46It's interesting you should say that because of all the places I have worshipped the least dry and most wonder inspiring sermons I have heard were at a little Presbyterian church here. If that... more
- Well that is factual ... Baruch, Thu Mar 8 17:08imprinting was pretty well proven by Konrad Lorenz, though he did cause the neighbors to stare while waddling around and quacking, while leading ducklings around. I don't think it is reasonable, to... more