MirageIBVATue Apr 3, 2012 21:26126.96.36.199A long time ago there was a small company that made a system called IBVA. It was a biofeedback system for the old Macintosh, and you could buy some various expansions for it, headsets, etc. It came with some games that would let you have brainpower duels with a friend, and the press covered that a bit. That thing was pretty easy to hack, and the company was really interested in what artists would do with it. Well one artist decided to hook plants up through this thing. Plants do not of course have humanlike brainwaves but they do have various responses to stimuli, which change and can be measured. I am not sure of the details of what response this art project used. That artist connected plants to a hacked version and the plants reacted to keyboard music which was being played, and produced some sort of response which was then translated into sound by the software the artist had written. I have seen video of the results, and...it sort of made me wonder. The plants were clearly reacting to the music and that doesn't mean they have any intelligence, of course. But what was really somewhat disturbing is that when a leaf was pulled from one of the plants, all the plants reacted and the sound changed. Basically the plant that had the leaf picked sent out a distress signal which the other plants received, and their response to that signal changed what the artist was measuring, causing the IBVA equipment and the software to change the pitch of the notes. I still tend to think plants do not sense pain as such but I am no longer entirely sure. I am also unsure what the experience of plant pain would be like without consciousness. Humans who are put into twilight sleep for surgery and not given pain prevention sometimes develop PTSD later because their bodies did experience the pain, even though they do not remember it. Can an organism have meaningful pain without a brain? My current answer is I don't know.
Here is a link to sensitive plants, plants which actually move in response to being touched:
Would you feel comfortable tearing a leaf from one of those? Intellectually, I think I should be comfortable, but you know what? I don't think I could do it. My empathy instincts would probably prevent me. If I had to hunt my own meat, I would probably have starved.
Was the music project a hoax? No, the machine was very real and I actually had an ongoing discussion with one of the guys there because I was wondering if I could adapt this thing to hook one of my cats up to the internet and make it click for her if she was focusing on specific images more than others. I had been taught in school that animals cannot recognize themselves in images, and that they can't tell living creatures from objects in pictures. This one cat I had was really fascinated by the computer and I thought I was seeing patterns in what she was looking at. She would sit by me while I surfed and watch watch watch. Pictures of living creatures seemed to interest her a lot more than pictures of objects. That would have been a way to test my theory. The company was very helpful and interested, but they told me because of the fur I would have to shave my cat's head, and there were some difficulties in how we could adapt the headset to track her eye movements. I ended up giving up on this because it was looking like I was going to have to shave her head and tape electrodes on her, and I thought the tape would be stressful to her and be painful to remove.I still wonder where she would have surfed to with a little headset on. That company is now defunct but if you want to see a similar IBVA device, here is a link:
Sai, if I don't eat meat I would die. I have been told this by multiple dieticians, including one who is not a meat eater and specializes in assisting people with chronic illnesses in creating a vegetarian or vegan diet that can work for them. I am too small for me to be able to take enough insulin to complete the proteins. Completing the proteins in a healthy vegan diet requires eating more carbs than I can eat. I was trying to do it, and I went into diabetic ketoacidosis. Acid blood. Very painful, leads to coma, and then death. So, if beastly nature has crept into me, I must endeavor to make something positive of it. Perhaps it is not such a bad thing. Humans I think are capable of more evil than other animals.
- Veggans sai ram, Tue Apr 3 14:45"It is a fact that plants also have life like animals. But animals are endowed with mind, and nervous systems too while the plants do not possess the same. The animals cry and weep when they are... more
- Hmmm clarym29, Tue Apr 3 17:23Not sure I agree with Mr. Baba on this one. I understand what he is saying. But the old saying that you are what you eat doesn't quite mean you inherit the spirit of what you eat. I'm not sure that... more
- lets say sai ram, Tue Apr 3 19:56lets say not an animals spirit but rather its essence or behaviour patterns. We know the mind can affect the body...in many ways. I put a gun to your head and your knees start to wobble...sweats... more
- What PETA should do Mirage, Tue Apr 3 22:30If they managed to get a law passed that all meat animals must be named with standard human names and those names must be on packages of meat, there'd be a whole lot of vegetarians within a week.... more
- Not only that but sai ram, Tue Apr 3 23:17a picture when they were born...all excited about life......I don't remember where I was but the PETA girls were taking a shower downtown as people were walking by....sai ram..
- yeah they are selling naked blondes Mirage, Tue Apr 3 23:49If they had naked men too then at least it would be equal immodesty, but I don't think their claim that just quitting meat will make you sexier is accurate. In fact, since they don't go to much... more
- Can I order two????? (nm) clarym29, Wed Apr 4 00:54
- becareful of what you order sai ram, Wed Apr 4 08:59http://www.eonline.com/news/transgender_miss_universe_canada/305938 I think Roman Empire and decline when I read stories like this.....Hell In a Hand Basket should be this years Pageant theme
- Re: becareful of what you order Mirage, Wed Apr 4 10:29The rules didn't actually specify the candidates must be born female. It's not the first time something like this has happened. It has happened in a couple of Asian countries, and one of them won a... more
- Wishing clarym29, Wed Apr 4 09:43Yeah, you are correct--be careful what you wish for--for you just might get it. At my stage in life, if I got two blondes the most productive thing I could do is put them to work in the yard and... more
- lol Mirage, Wed Apr 4 01:15I think the idea is that if you become a vegetarian they will flock to you, for free. I can't say that possibility excites me much, though I'm sure my husband would probably have liked the idea of me ... more
- See my reply to sai ram (nm) clarym29, Wed Apr 4 09:44
- Vegan??? clarym29, Tue Apr 3 21:45I assume you have become a vegetarian? I am leaning toward that myself, but I have not arrived yet. My reasons are not moral, but that my body does better when I stick to vegs and cheese and... more
- Some caveats Mirage, Tue Apr 3 21:59It is extremely important for neurological health that you get the B vitamins which normally come from red meat. That is one of the biggest mistakes people make. I had to write a thesis on this in... more
- Vit. B clarym29, Tue Apr 3 22:25you are correct. I take vit. B shots daily. I also take vit D and over 4000 units of vit E. My doctor is aware of the newest homeopathy studies and uses the ones that apply to me. I am close to... more
- Re: Vit. B Mirage, Tue Apr 3 22:41I'm taking B, D, E, and C, to make up for the dietary restrictions I have, and drinking green tea and Smart Water to combat the dehydration I get because my glucose levels jump up when the sun rises... more
- Wow clarym29, Wed Apr 4 00:47Quite a story. You have been fighting the odds and winning--great going! My Dr. is just unorthodox enough that anything that works catches his attention. I really feel he will have added 20+ extra... more
- Thanks Mirage, Wed Apr 4 01:09I have been very fortunate to have had a family that made many sacrifices to pay for really expensive care I needed when I was growing up. Lots of bloodtests, especially. We did not have home... more
- my glucose levels sai ram, Tue Apr 3 23:21My glucose levels are off the charts....so i don't worry about them anymore.......have you been taking cinnamon?.......sai ram
- I picked it up sai ram, Tue Apr 3 21:57I picked it up in India 2004....however, not a true one. I still eat some occasional seafood. I wouldn't eat fish even, but my wife has a habit of dragging me out to eat all the time and its hard in... more
- Re: I picked it up Mirage, Tue Apr 3 22:11Mexican and Italian restaurants tend to be pretty good about substituting something else for meat if you ask. I used to ask for mushrooms instead of meat a lot and because mushrooms are cheaper, the... more
- hmmmm japanese sai ram, Tue Apr 3 22:17actually eat it alot since living there back 7 or 8 years ago......I feel the best physically after eating a nice japanese meal with green tea....problem is I have to stop on the way home at taco... more
- Let's hope he is wrong Mirage, Tue Apr 3 21:30Cannibals mostly believe/believed that eating the brains and flesh of their enemies would infuse them with the strength, intelligence, bravery, and other strengths of that enemy. His argument could... more