BaruchUnfortunately science isn't something ...Tue Apr 24, 2012 13:0220.127.116.11regular people will or can understand. Do you understand computer OS software? ... as in Operating System? For most people, including most technical people, probably not. But everyone has an opinion regarding MS, Apple or Google. Most of science is like that, and for most people assessing the quality of scientific research is equally random. Even scientists who have a given specialty, have a hard time assessing the quality of research outside their own specialty.
While I can't give an expert opinion, I can tell you that micro-evolution is proven in controlled experiment, but macro-evolution isn't proven. To prove macro-evolution, scientists would have to engage in controlled experiments (or at least peer reviewed observations) for millions of years. That just isn't going to ever happen. On the other hand, macro-evolution is plausible. This doesn't mean there aren't a lot of things that aren't understood, even in micro-evolution. For instance almost half of a human being's DNA is actually left over pieces of endogenous (non-infectious) virus DNA. DNA-wise, you and I are about 49% virus derived. Another 49% of our DNA is junk-DNA ... meaning we don't have any idea where it came from. Only about 2% of your genetic material gets expressed, that is all it takes to build a human. Most people, including most scientists, don't know what I just said, because it is very new, and people don't want to talk about these things. In the Gilbert & Sullivan operetta, The Mikado, the Japanese emperor brags that his genealogy goes all the way back to "a protoplasmic globule" ... and now we know that is mostly the case!
Where I disagree with secular folks, is the idea that G-d isn't involved in any of this ... their implicit materialism, or at best the "god of the margins". I think that G-d directs everything that happens in the same way a playwrite or director composes or directs a play. But this is a play were all the actors get to ad-lib their lines more or less, though the scenery has to stick to the script. I do believe in G-d, and I believe in personhood and freewill ... probably the same way you do. But I don't read the Bible the same way you do, or regard time the way you do. We have more in common than we are different.
- Creation vs Evolution mods, Tue Apr 24 08:18I really quite like this religious tolerance site for it's perspective on issues. However, when I reached the part about why evolution is true and unquestioned by all scientists my faith in your... more
- It could be worht checking out the indoctrinational..... Kasey, Fri Apr 27 22:12background of those scientists who dispute the concept of evolution....if their mind has been pre-formatted with a particular version of life-creation from a religious perspective, that will always... more
- Unfortunately science isn't something ... Baruch, Tue Apr 24 13:01
- Yet your free will stops you writing " g o d"! (nm) Kasey, Fri Apr 27 22:16
- Actually I have more free will than most believers ... Baruch, Sat Apr 28 01:09but then my religion is a matter of experience, not of belief or indoctrination ... the Christian evangelical model is not a universal model, just the easiest one to poo-poo. Shalom
- Well, mods clarym29, Tue Apr 24 09:19here is my response. You say, "However, when I reached the part about why evolution is true and unquestioned by all scientists my faith in your ability to analyse completely fell apart. You seem to... more
- Many don't like the book "Jesus the Man" by Dr B. Th. (nm) Kasey, Fri Apr 27 22:19
- Why is that? (nm) clarym29, Fri Apr 27 22:31
- Well put ... Baruch, Tue Apr 24 18:37while a certain amount of faith or credulity is necessary for any human endeavor, what is often meant by faith in the great religions is simply accepting really vast assumptions at face value, and... more
- Indoctrination of a child's mind can achieve just about...?? (nm Kasey, Fri Apr 27 22:20
- i quite agree clarym29, Tue Apr 24 20:03and experienced that a bit in my Unity years. Social pressure to conform, within any highly organized system, is huge. It's just that organized religion institutionalizes that tendency. And I'd... more
- Further..... clarym29, Tue Apr 24 11:39mods, consider the following: Evolution has been described as "fact and theory", "fact not theory", "only a theory, not a fact", and "multiple theories, not fact". Science cannot achieve absolute... more
- Good scientists agree with your last statement ... Baruch, Tue Apr 24 18:41alas some are so self confident of their observations, experiments and theories ... that they do present it as The Truth. This is of course offensive to anyone who thinks they have a Different Truth. ... more
- and just because clarym29, Tue Apr 24 20:06someone labels themselves as a scientist, does not mean they really are one. Individual scientists can have personal agendas as well.
- Theory sai ram, Tue Apr 24 09:42"The theory of evolution is just that a theory"....I agree...but some supporters of evolution believe it has become no longer a theory but fact......I have had more than one argument on this... more
- Yep, turns out Darwin and Mendel are approximate Baruch, Tue Apr 24 18:46but don't think that because of protein expression, one can therefore demonstrate that the children of the rich should be an aristocracy. Proteins do what they do, but that is just so much meat. The... more
- Not heard..... clarym29, Tue Apr 24 11:57of that theory, Sai--thanks. But that use of the word "theory" is another definition; one used by the social and psychological sciences. Just to underline the thought that when discussion any subject ... more
- Actual molecular biology ... Baruch, Tue Apr 24 18:48is quite complicated, and new discoveries are still being made. But usually in lay discussions, it is overly simplified or using the 19th century version. Shalom
- What is a theory? clarym29, Tue Apr 24 11:33Development of a Simple Theory by the Scientific Method: Start with an observation that evokes a question: Broth spoils when I leave it out for a couple of days. Why? Using logic and previous... more
- Good scientific method is good ... Baruch, Tue Apr 24 18:51because it was developed thru trial and error over the last 500 years, and didn't succumb to Lysenkoism. It is not always possible to apply it however, because of the nature of what is being studied, ... more
- ...air my foot sai ram, Tue Apr 24 12:29its not 'air' that has spoiled my grandkids.....its Grandma...er, maybe Grandpa......and my wife has made some broth that never was allowed to sit lone enough to have any dang air spoil it (or so... more
- There are kooks that believe in ... Baruch, Tue Apr 24 18:52Hollow Earth theory and Flat Earth theory also, and would get a hearing on Fox & Friends ;-) Shalom
- That's Faux and Friends (nm) clarym29, Tue Apr 24 19:56
- I don't buy hollow earth sai ram, Tue Apr 24 19:15but hollow moon might be true.....there has always been something odd about the moon in my mind...sai ram.. http://www.onelight.com/thei/hollowmoon.html
- Lunacy? (nm) Baruch, Tue Apr 24 23:50
- While sai ram, Wed Apr 25 00:40While people insist that admissions to psychiatric hospitals, traffic accidents, homicides or suicides increase during a full Moon, there is no scientific evidence to support such claims....but my... more
- It's the green cheese..... (nm) clarym29, Tue Apr 24 19:57
- perhaps.......but sai ram, Tue Apr 24 20:55but I think its odd why the man-in-the-moon...doesn't have a name...everyone should have a name...even if its Ralph....sai ram.