clarym29Historically speaking......Wed Apr 25, 2012 18:06188.8.131.52At first value there are many unreasonable things about the beliefs of early Christianity, and, as the organized church developed, those individuals who possessed the key of interpretation, the gnostics, were forced out by the ecclesiastical authorities. Historically speaking, as Christianity developed, it could have both embraced and sanctified the classical quest for knowledge and learning, and several of the early church fathers actively worked toward this end. However, as things turned out, the developing church, as a political body, found it more expedient to emphasize unquestioning belief in dogma rather than the principles of open inquiry. One church father proclaimed that he believed in the teachings of the church for the very reason that they were absurd (Tertullian). Irenaeus, a bishop who wrote against the gnostics, claimed that bread and wine were literally transformed into the body and blood of Jesus, and that by feasting upon this substance our own physical bodies would be miraculously transformed into an immortal state. Paul's belief in an entirely spiritual afterlife stood in sharp distinction to the materialistic views of some later church fathers who insisted on a literal, physical resurrection of the dead.
Interestingly, while the matter is not capable of proof, it is likely that the historical Jesus was himself some sort of gnostic teacher; indeed, if this was the case, it would help account, at least in part, for his personification as the "Gnostic Reveler,in early Christian tests...........................Jesus thus followed a model similar to that of the Greek bards and the Pythagorean philosophers, who used symbolism, mythology, parables, and other entertainments, while simultaneously transmitting a higher message for those who had ears to hear. Interestingly, some of the earliest and most important Christian writings--including one used by the authors of the New Testament--portray Jesus exclusively as a teacher of heavenly wisdom, with no mention whatsoever of his fate by crucifixion nor belief in his subsequent resurrection....................Like the initiated composers and transmitters of the Greek myths, the Christian gnostics expressed the insights of esoteric cosmology--that "hidden pattern of creation which underlies the foundation of the world"--in the myths and legends of the new religion.
The above is a short excerpt from Jesus Christ Sun of God by David Fideler.
Apparently, politics has been alive and well as long as religion and philosophy has. It seems to e that, in the finished product of Christianity, the materialists won out, or at least won the upper hand, for the gnostic message was not totally erased from the tests of the Bible. I would also say that Jesus simply was not real, but an amalgam of many different teachers and philosophers. Fideler suggests one way in which this could have happened.
- RC's still believe in transformation! (nm) Kasey, Tue May 1 07:19
- Yes, Gnosticism aka Kabbalah ... Baruch, Thu Apr 26 06:44goes back to the Wisdom literature of Egypt and Mesopotamia (not counting imports from Persia and India). The Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary clearly show the raw material and process that... more
- Individual oracles clarym29, Thu Apr 26 11:34I accept that the normal way a religion is created is around the core of the teachings of an oracle. Fielder says---Christianity arose during a tie of remarkable cultural and intellectual fusion... more
- Maybe he didn't read" Jesus of the Apocalypse" bt B.Th. (nm) Kasey, Sun Apr 29 04:29
- Great quote ... Baruch, Thu Apr 26 13:31"powerful new social, spiritual and philosophical syntheses". Correction though, Christianity at the beginning, wasn't Western, it was Eastern (as was Judaism then). Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch... more
- Well sai ram, Wed Apr 25 19:58there were enough people on earth that people didn't need to make others up....I believe Jesus to be real....but I also believe we don't have a accurate nor true picture of His... more
- All the myths are true ... Baruch, Thu Apr 26 06:46to the cultures in which they arise ... the problem is that the modern notion of factual truth is bogus. Shalom
- Facts died MN_Morgan, Mon Apr 30 14:20http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-19/news/ct-talk-huppke-obit-facts-20120419_1_facts-philosopher-opinion It's a crying shame. ;D
- I read that same article last week ... Baruch, Mon Apr 30 18:20pretty funny in a sad way. The facts were ... as defined by the Enlightenment, by the European colonialist upper classes ... particularly facts on the ground ... such as we have steel and horses and... more
- Of course not! MN_Morgan, Wed May 2 09:28The people who migrated there first and settled in the land did. :P
- To be more precise, it's a myth Frashavan, Thu Apr 26 07:40the myth of "factual" truth and "objective" and "empirical" science is the most common myth in our societies. Quite a few people (not naming names) are unable to see that it isn't, and couldn't be a... more
- I have sympathy ... Baruch, Thu Apr 26 13:34any great civilization is a cultural Matrix complete in itself, and only requires pre-industrial technology to propagate and survive ... computers are not required. But most people in any culture... more
- Sympathy, he's got! Frashavan, Fri Apr 27 04:46Even though you, and I, and perhaps a few others, peek under the corner of the curtain in idle moments, most of the time we accept and act as if the prevailing myths were true. People always do. The... more
- One reason why I know that the core of Christianity ... Baruch, Fri Apr 27 05:56is powerful, even if it is fictional, is that the Powers recognize that it is deeply subversive and has to remain submissive to the Powers. This is the struggle between our American politician, Ryan, ... more
- You are more well clarym29, Wed Apr 25 20:23traveled than I. I am envious. Not all truth that is embedded in myth comes from a real person--symbolic truth does not need a person to impart truth or lesson. Aesop demonstrates that--as well as... more
- But in Delphi they still believe they executed ... Baruch, Thu Apr 26 06:49the annoying Aesop, by throwing him off the top of the mountain there. Did they? What matters is that they have believed they did, for 1000s of years. Truth and falsehood aren't opposites, they are... more