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clarym29

In my experience

Fri Apr 27, 2012 09:51

108.193.201.141

I spent 3 year in the active Army, and 9 years in the active reserve, as a Special Agent im Military Intelligence. I was a counter-espionage agent, but I did have some exposure to the techniques of interrogation. I worked with, talked to, and was taught, by agents from Hawaii to Germany. It was universally claimed by those agents that torture was useless. It was the least reliable way to gather useful intelligence--and held true for all prisoners from line-crossers to combatants to civilians. Not even considering the morality of it, it simply does not work. At best it produces useless info, to wrong intelligence. And wrong intelligence on the battlefield can prove to be quite disastrous. Plus torture, not matter how successful, ruins out reputation in the world; but so what? Only that if we maintain the thought that we do not torture, would not torture, it may save our guys from torture, or at least put pressure on that particular enemy to refrain from torturing our guys. Especially if we peruse trying all those who do torture for war crimes.

Bush/Cheney changed all that for the US military. The only way to restore that image would be to try at least, Cheney for war crimes. But that will not happen.

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• The immorality and ineffectiveness of torture — Frashavan, Fri Apr 27 04:35
  Since 9-11 we have had a few discussions here about the use of torture. Those of you who have been here for awhile know that I have always said that torture was a completely immoral and unethical... more
• • The the polygrph instead in disguise? (nm) — Kasey, Fri Apr 27 22:01
  • • The polygraph only works ... — Baruch, Sat Apr 28 00:59
      as a psychosomatic system, you have to believe it catches your lies (and most in ignorance do) in order for it to catch you. But well trained people, disciplined informed people, or sociopaths ...... more
  • In my experience — clarym29, Fri Apr 27 09:51
  • • Civilians only believe what they see on TV (nm) — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 17:32
    • So it was useless — sai ram, Fri Apr 27 13:20
      what plan did they have that was much better?...one that is tried and true?.....I would believe its not 100% or even 50%...but useless...naw. Its been used all over the world by countries since there ... more
    • • If we can torture all the kids in foreign nations ... — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 17:37
        from a young age, maybe they will learn to avoid Americans. You have to be proactive. After the Twin Towers fall is too late. Colonization, extermination, expropriation, enslavement ... our ancestors ... more
      • Of course there — clarym29, Fri Apr 27 13:58
        could be benefits to anything. So, what? Yes, torture has been used and will continue to be used forever. So what? No, torture was not useless according to my teachers and those that worked in the... more
      • • Authorities don't want your respect ... — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 17:43
          they want your fear, and to use that fear as a tool, to use the violence they have induced, to useful 1% purposes. "verified to be of real value" ... that is something no Republican or Democrat... more
        • • Re: Authorities don't want your respect ... — clarym29, Fri Apr 27 18:01
            "Authorities don't want your respect ...they want your fear, and to use that fear as a tool, to use the violence they have induced, to useful 1% purposes." As they say in the old country--No Shit,... more
          • • fear is — sai ram, Fri Apr 27 20:44
              fear is a big if not the biggest motivator of mankind......is it counterproductive?....I don't know.....most working people have some level of fear about being late for work. This fear just might... more
            • • The official list of phobias ... — Baruch, Sat Apr 28 00:56
                include fear of dirt and fear of death. Now phobia is an irrational or extreme example of a rational fear. I kind of think that the first is crazy but the second is reasonable ;-) Shalom
              • Ever hear of — clarym29, Fri Apr 27 22:29
                the word contraryian? You wear it well. :)
              • • More curmugeonly ;-) (nm) — Baruch, Sat Apr 28 00:57
                • • I yam what I yam and that’s all what I yam! (nm) — sai ram, Sat Apr 28 10:09
                  • • Watch out for the listeria on the spinach (nm) — Baruch, Sat Apr 28 11:08
                    • • I'm not fond on yams. (nm) — clarym29, Sat Apr 28 11:48
                      • • you need more edumakation about our friend the yam — sai ram, Sat Apr 28 12:12
                          http://www.livestrong.com/article/246981-what-are-the-benefits-of-eating-yams/ don't get Popeye upset with you.......sai ram
                        • • No, no--spinich good---yams, yuck! (nm) — clarym29, Sat Apr 28 14:42
                          • • Try ... — Baruch, Sat Apr 28 14:58
                              deep-fried tempura battered yams at a Japanese restaurant. One of my daughter's favorites. Shalom
                            • • At our favorite — sai ram, Sat Apr 28 18:18
                                japanese restaurant here...we order the tempura/yams as well.........yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!........sai ram
                              • • Hold the yams, just tempuraed tempura (nm) — clarym29, Sat Apr 28 19:10
            • Counterproductive? — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 18:34
              if you are using fear on your loved ones, then they should "off" you the next time you sleep. See in Newspeak, Love is Hate ... and we express a lot of that lately. The problem has been our... more
            • • Great advice — clarym29, Fri Apr 27 18:53
                if you are using fear on your loved ones, then they should "off" you the next time you sleep. -----Just got a verdict, in the town I live in, on a woman who stabbed her husband to death while he... more
              • • A woman like that is what Conservatives fear most! (nm) — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 19:05
        • the So what — sai ram, Fri Apr 27 15:47
          "But it was not dependable or should I say it had the lowest dependable rating one could give in this area.".....torture is a tool...and like any tools it might not be what you need for the job. But... more
        • • Murder is a tool, and is sometimes useful ... — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 17:46
            or even essential (like against Hitler in 1936). But this is only seen in hindsight. People who want to use violence have the insanity of omniscience and omnipotence ... and the desire to kick ass... more
  • I agree....except — sai ram, Fri Apr 27 09:22
    "I have always said that torture was a completely immoral and unethical thing"....I agree.....however, torture has been around for how long?...how long has the armies in the world used torture to... more
  • • I would torture in those circumstances also ... — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 17:31
      but in order to delay death, which I would also administer. Kidnapping is a capital offense. Now I don't expect I would get good information, even from someone not under torture, mostly because... more
  • True enough ... — Baruch, Fri Apr 27 05:50
    unfortunately the truth isn't valued as much as it should be, nor is kindness. Falsehood and cruelty are ascendant. Let the seculars and their progress of humanity fantasies deal with that. Shalom

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