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Baruch
RC dogma usually based on Plato ...
Wed May 2, 2012 17:14
68.92.112.11

except when based on Aristotle. Except as symbol for the believer, transubstantiation never was good philosophy, but was originally promoted in the 800s as a pietistic belief, and also to avoid nullifying invalid mass by unqualified priests. If G-d is in the bread and wine, then communion is maintained, even if the priest is dressed as a Hawaiian hula dancer ;-) If its sanctity depends on the sanctity of the priest, then all sorts of problems arise. It was something fought over around 400s by Augustine of Hippo vs the Donatists, for different reasons. The Donatists didn't accept the priests imposed on them by the hierarchy, and so claimed that the mass by those rejected priests was invalid. Augustine of Hippo first promulgated that the validity is in the mass itself, not in the priest.

Shalom

  • Historically speaking...... — clarym29, Wed Apr 25 18:06
    At first value there are many unreasonable things about the beliefs of early Christianity, and, as the organized church developed, those individuals who possessed the key of interpretation, the... more
    • RC's still believe in transformation! (nm) — Kasey, Tue May 1 07:19
      • RC dogma usually based on Plato ... — Baruch, Wed May 2 17:14
    • Yes, Gnosticism aka Kabbalah ... — Baruch, Thu Apr 26 06:44
      goes back to the Wisdom literature of Egypt and Mesopotamia (not counting imports from Persia and India). The Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary clearly show the raw material and process that... more
      • Individual oracles — clarym29, Thu Apr 26 11:34
        I accept that the normal way a religion is created is around the core of the teachings of an oracle. Fielder says---Christianity arose during a tie of remarkable cultural and intellectual fusion... more
    • Well — sai ram, Wed Apr 25 19:58
      there were enough people on earth that people didn't need to make others up....I believe Jesus to be real....but I also believe we don't have a accurate nor true picture of His... more
      • All the myths are true ... — Baruch, Thu Apr 26 06:46
        to the cultures in which they arise ... the problem is that the modern notion of factual truth is bogus. Shalom
        • Facts died — MN_Morgan, Mon Apr 30 14:20
          http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-19/news/ct-talk-huppke-obit-facts-20120419_1_facts-philosopher-opinion It's a crying shame. ;D
          • I read that same article last week ... — Baruch, Mon Apr 30 18:20
            pretty funny in a sad way. The facts were ... as defined by the Enlightenment, by the European colonialist upper classes ... particularly facts on the ground ... such as we have steel and horses and... more
            • Of course not! — MN_Morgan, Wed May 2 09:28
              The people who migrated there first and settled in the land did. :P
        • To be more precise, it's a myth — Frashavan, Thu Apr 26 07:40
          the myth of "factual" truth and "objective" and "empirical" science is the most common myth in our societies. Quite a few people (not naming names) are unable to see that it isn't, and couldn't be a... more
          • I have sympathy ... — Baruch, Thu Apr 26 13:34
            any great civilization is a cultural Matrix complete in itself, and only requires pre-industrial technology to propagate and survive ... computers are not required. But most people in any culture... more
            • Sympathy, he's got! — Frashavan, Fri Apr 27 04:46
              Even though you, and I, and perhaps a few others, peek under the corner of the curtain in idle moments, most of the time we accept and act as if the prevailing myths were true. People always do. The... more
      • You are more well — clarym29, Wed Apr 25 20:23
        traveled than I. I am envious. Not all truth that is embedded in myth comes from a real person--symbolic truth does not need a person to impart truth or lesson. Aesop demonstrates that--as well as... more
        • But in Delphi they still believe they executed ... — Baruch, Thu Apr 26 06:49
          the annoying Aesop, by throwing him off the top of the mountain there. Did they? What matters is that they have believed they did, for 1000s of years. Truth and falsehood aren't opposites, they are... more
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