KaseyBaptism by proxy supposedly guarantees a path to .......Thu May 10, 2012 20:08220.127.116.11the afterlife. This is the reason behind the Mormons in Holland doing this for three deceased members of the Dutch royal family recently, after checking out their birth certificates. It seems it is creating some controversy there. Also it seems several years ago the same was attempted for the hero from WW2, Anne Frank, which really stirred a hornet's nest debate.
The question really is, what right do these religionists have to do this without the permission of the deceased recipient? Alternatively, it may just be a futile exercise anyway as the concept of an afterlife is pure speculation and a fantasy.
- Hubris clarym29, Fri May 11 10:45Typical of the very religious.
- More like "cluelessness" (see my post below) (nm) Frashavan, Fri May 11 13:41
- This is a sticky subject MN_Morgan, Fri May 11 10:26It does not respect the wishes of the deceased, and it may offend other parts of their family that are still living. My personal opinion is that funerals are more for the living, but that you should... more
- I always found that obnoxious too ... Baruch, Fri May 11 04:34but do you know that is Mormonism, a woman believer can't get into Heaven on her own, but has to be pulled by her hair into Heaven, by her husband? Now that is weird. Shalom
- the poor Mormon woman who sai ram, Fri May 11 08:48I feel sorry for the poor Mormon woman who died just after getting her chemo treatments....sai ram..
- It's a pious act Frashavan, Fri May 11 06:39Primarily intended for Mormons to do for their deceased relatives -- some people obviously get carried away -- so it actually fits very nicely with the original meaning of pious. According to Mormon... more
- Pious clarym29, Fri May 11 10:49pi·ous/ˈpīəs/ Adjective: Devoutly religious. Making a hypocritical display of virtue. ----I vote for the bottom definition. :))
- I also agree with the second definition ... Baruch, Sun May 13 16:51it is synonymous with the perjorative designation "Pharisee" ... in that definition, the pious are the greatest threat to true religion. Shalom
- Not its original meaning. Frashavan, Fri May 11 11:41Originally, the Latin meaning was "having or showing appropriate respect or regard for parents or elders." From there it came to mean: "having or showing a dutiful spirit of reverence for God or an... more
- And how did that definition change? Baruch, Sun May 13 16:54the Emperor, starting with Constantine, being the ultra-paer-familias ... is the ultimate object of that respect, and like the Pope of today (but not the Bishop of Rome then) ... was the Vicar of... more
- Indeed. Frashavan, Sun May 13 17:39Caligula is supposed by some to have refrained from assassinating Tiberius for so long because he feared it would be seen as impious. Of course, it was under Tiberius that prosecutions for sacrilege... more
- Yes, almost all of us are Romans now ;-( Baruch, Sun May 13 18:10Supposedly, like the death of Stalin, the death of TIberius, was a convenient opportunity. Tiberius had been sick to death, but kept on reviving, but a pillow solved all that ... it was so... more
- I know clarym29, Fri May 11 12:05I couldn't help myself, I just had to make that statement. :))
- I think most Mormons are quite sincere about it Frashavan, Fri May 11 13:40I think they think they are doing a good deed. One of the things that happens when you adopt a certain mind-set is that you fail to understand how deeply offensive it can be to others. It reminds me... more
- Jewish people, unlike Catholic Poles ... Baruch, Sun May 13 17:02didn't collaborate with the ultimate enemy (as did many other Catholic populations), nor did they rejoice after the war that their hated interior out-group had been ethnically cleansed as the Poles... more
- The "getting rid or bit >>>>Israel then and today! (nm) Kasey, Mon May 14 03:10
- The Poles also turned on the Germans after the war Frashavan, Sun May 13 17:34Nor do I doubt that, had the situation been reversed and the Nazi hatred of Poles had been a higher priority than their hatred of Jews, that many Jews would not have handed over their Polish... more
- And that is the entire problem! clarym29, Fri May 11 14:35Religious people especially feel it is good to substitute sincerity for good sense or reason. Hitler was sincere in his hatred for Jews-----so what? being sincere goes not go for much with me. Maybe... more
- Correct, serial killers as far as I know, are quite sincere! (nm Baruch, Sun May 13 17:04
- You would prefer hypocrisy? Frashavan, Fri May 11 17:41I do see your point: sincerity is no guarantee that what you are doing is inoffensive. In fact, it might be a flag that the reverse is the case. Still, in a plural society there will always be people ... more