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Baruch
Correct, but deliberate propaganda ...
Wed May 16, 2012 18:42
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the intent was to immediately turn around W Germany, as a bulwark against Stalin and as the center-piece of NATO. So the non-Nazi Germans were immediately counted as "good" Germans ... and basically they ended up following General Patton's policies as soon as he was out of the way. Probably a good thing as the Berlin Air Lift would have ended with a bang instead of the wimper, if Patton had still been around. Much of the opposition to Patton was because he was a Republican ... it was OK for a Democrat to embrace pro-German policy, but not for a Republican to do so, at least until that German-American Eisenhower came to the White House. Of course President Truman was also German-American. This is radically different than the plan of the Fall of 1944, where it was proposed to keep Germany at the pre-industrial level to keep them from continuing to periodically bother the rest of the world. So yes, almost all the Germans were good Germans, and almost all the Nazis were actually no different than Republicans ... only a very few Nazis were the real problem ... sure they were! And given the return to grace of the Catholic Church, with suppression of Fascist regimes not pressed in Spain, Portugal or Argentina (late 40s to 70s), once Il Duce was eliminated (he was the main connection, Hitler was considered a loose cannon), what could we do but turn a blind eye to former Nazis and other Facists, as long as the played for the NATO side, including anti-Stalinist forces still in civil war against Stalin in the W Ukraine in the late 40s, all being aided by the CIA (Wild Bill Donovan being an Irish-American Catholic of course). The revelatory CIA books of the 70s made clear just how Catholic the CIA continued to be into the 70s.

Without backers, Hitler would have only been a raving lunatic. Fact is, many ordinary Germans considered him the second coming of Christ. It was their projections that made him into an all powerful monster, because the Germans themselves wanted to be all powerful Supermen. How can we eliminate Fascism in the West, when the victorious Western powers were themselves Fascist? This is why Democrats are not true Leftists. Funny you mention "having a drink with that funny Austrian with the funny mustache" ... that is how many Americans viewed George W before 2009, but then his grandfather and great-grandfather had been financiers of Fascism, particularly of the German kind.

Shalom

  • Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner? Some more enlightened Christians are trying to mature Christianity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc The Christian invention of... more
    • I agree ...Baruch, Tue May 15 18:19
      on the other hand, the original, bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara, would say that with karma you get what you deserve, even though both punishment and reward are delusions ;-) The Jewish version seems too ... more
      • Re: I agree ...ipirate2, Tue May 15 21:42
        Influenced perhapd but they never bought into such a repugnant concept from what I know of most of them. Regards DL
      • Yet the majority believe in Satan and hell. That is what happens from taking myths literally. Regards DL
        • At least in the US ...Baruch, Wed May 16 05:56
          only the Fundies believe in Satan and Hell ... most have defected to "feel good" religion ... a bourgoise Manicheism. Shalom
          • Benedict wants RCs to believe in SatanFrashavan, Wed May 16 13:39
            But I can't say he is making much impact in North America; and doubt he is making much progress in Europe, either. Of course, the RC hierarchy seems pretty much convinced the future of the Roman... more
            • Yes, Christians are more conservative ...Baruch, Wed May 16 17:23
              in Third World countries, in all denominations. But then I think just as that creates centrifugal forces for the Anglicans, so also for the Catholics. This is what led to the split between Shia and... more
              • I think this is, overall, a good thing. The Hitler as monster stuff that has dominated since the end of the war didn't help anyone who wanted to prevent fascism, or demagoguery, because it made... more
                • BUT ON RACIAL OR RELIGIOUS TOPICS! (nm)Kasey, Thu May 17 03:23
                • Correct, but deliberate propaganda ... — Baruch, Wed May 16 18:42
                  • been well tempted to continue the advance westward by any means at his disposal, that's another factor in re-arming the Germans and rebuilding their shattered economy and self-image. Regards, Kasey
                  • The extremists on FOX tap into a deep wellFrashavan, Wed May 16 18:53
                    The fact is nearly everyone has sympathy for the arguments "Taxes are too high!", "The government is too intrusive!" "Many government regulations are insane!"... The more they harp on those few... more
                    • Telling people what they want to hear ...Baruch, Wed May 16 22:17
                      is the very meat of politics, red meat to carnivores. Also marketing to consumers who are equally bloody in tooth and claw. Americans are natural rebels if not anarchists. This is what plagued... more
                      • Largely a mythFrashavan, Thu May 17 07:41
                        The American Revolution was really exchanging a distant landed gentry for a local one. The "rugged individualist" and "rebel" myths are just that, myths. Most people end up cheering for The Earps and ... more
                        • Molly Maguires?Baruch, Thu May 17 17:56
                          It helps to have some New England or NYC class, like the Cornelius Vanderbuilt vs Filibusters in Latin America. Or Tombstone mining interests agains the local cattle rustlers and horse thieves. Hence ... more
          • Re: At least in the US ...ipirate2, Wed May 16 10:10
            Yes. You will improve my vocabulary if my memory still works. Regards DL
      • Notions of Hell ...Baruch, Tue May 15 18:09
        as an after-life place of punishment, originated in New Kingdom Egypt, including a classic Last Judgement. Prior to that time in Egypt, in the Old Kingdom for instance, only the Pharaoh really got an ... more
    • IndeedMN_Morgan, Tue May 15 14:08
      Wishing upon others, you bring it upon yourself, though you do not recognize it because you think it has another form than what you expected. Expecting that it is a real place, it is created for you... more
      • A horticultural motif ...Baruch, Tue May 15 18:13
        plant brambles, and brambles will grow up, to the harm of all. Plant grapes and grapes will grow up, to the benefit of all. However I don't see it being tit for tat ... as karma requires. Shalom
        • Never tit for tatMN_Morgan, Tue May 15 18:48
          Just a product of itself, hence why it is so in-discriminant as to who it affects.
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