BaruchFor a monotheist, obviously both ...Thu Jul 5, 2012 18:1868.91.148.185I mean monotheist, in the sense of metaphysical monism ... not the innumerate versions that have more than one god (devil etc). I can agree that G-d knows both sides of creation, being the Creator ... dualism of good and bad (or evil) is the natural progress of creation, which proceeds to complete pluralism. Even in just the human experience, most would agree that there are many human individuals. But that is a phenomenal view, not a neumenal view. In the neumenal view, or unitary view ... there is only one human nature, that is as Nietzsche said, beyond good and evil.
Of course theologians try to count the angels on the head of a pin when encountering scriptural verses that completely contradict their cherished dogma. The two verses you quote are particular bugbears.
In Kabbalah, there are ten aspects to the divine personality, which is replicated in each individual human. "the man" in question would be Adam Kadmon aka Logos, the archetypical human, who has those same ten aspects though in lesser degree. And each individual human, as imperfect Platonic copies of Adam Kadmon, have those same ten aspects also. These aspects are called "sephirot". From the sephirot and their linkages, Kabbalists have intuited the "tree of life" as well as "Adam Kadmon" as well as the letters of the Hebrew alef-bet.
As I have posted before, the second quote, from the NT, rather than the OT, as was the case with the first quote, is mistranslated. The notion of perfection to a Greek Gentile, isn't what is written in the original language, Judeo-Greek. The actual word there means "complete". So it can be better translated as "Be ye therefore complete, even as your Father in heaven is complete". This is clearly a gnostic slogan, which has been turned on its head to satisfy the preexisting requirements of Christian theology. It makes sense as a direction to a gnostic, but not to a Christian, because while a gnostic can aspire to be complete. a Christian can't aspire to be perfect, by definition, because only Jesus is perfect. I would note at this point, Christian theology has to go thru pretzels to justify why the obvious failure of Jesus' mission, is an ultimate example of perfection.
So G-d's warning the the Garden, could be seen as common sense, if one becomes gnostically complete by eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (it isn't an apple), then one will by definition experience all the good and bad that comes with the complete human experience. Yes, Adam and Eve did the right thing, but not necessarily in the right way. Since the original context had different levels of meaning, here was the gnostic (the snake isn't a snake, it is a serpent, which is like a dragon (hence the allegory popular in the Middle Ages of St George rescuing the virgin maiden from a dragon, that reverses the story) ... which in India is called a "naga", which is a serpent deity that protects snakes and other reptiles that inspired the imaginary dragon all across Asia.
And the Naga king, was a very powerful deity, that kept secret knowledge that a gnostic quester could seek at his own peril (see Hero With A Thousand Faces). In prehistory this will have developed out of Indo-European proto-religion, that was then overlaid on the story of the snake in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Bedouin still oppress any snake they find in an oasis, by sewing its mouth shut, so that it cannot whisper lies. One of the functions of Iblis (the Devil) in Islam, is to be a whisperer of lies.
Developing a moral sense, inevitably develops a sense of guilt or shame, because once we have one, we are no longer animals, but people, who understand that there are positive and negative consequences to our every action and inaction. Unlike the Mobius strip, morality is like a coin, it has to have two sides, not one. But I don't think this diminishes the tragedy that appears to be an unavoidable aspect of time itself, and which the Buddha developed a solution.
Shalom
- For a monotheist, obviously both ... — Baruch, Thu Jul 5 18:18
