BaruchTheology is a branch of Metaphysics ...Fri Jul 6, 2012 09:4868.90.156.210just as Quantum Theory is a branch of Physics ;-) What is common to both situations is that we have some data, which in general might be either rational nor quantitative (what I dreamed last night) but in limited normal conscious circumstances is both rational and quantitative (what comes out of the ATLAS instrument). Well at least it is a good assumption that the latter is both rational and quantitative, that is what the physicists are assuming with good reason, though there is no guarantee that those two assumptions are correct. This was all defined during the first 500 years of Greek philosophy ... the invention of abstract mathematics, of logic, and physical science. The mathematics and logic developed way quicker than the physical science, which remained in a primitive state for another 1500+ years (until you have Tartaglia, Stevin, Galileo and Kepler). In the case of dogmatic theology, one assumes the evidence is rational, but not quantitative ... see St Thomas Aquinas etal.
To my own taste, I don't care for dogmatic theology ... basically that is assuming angels, then deducing how many can dance on the head of a pin. Dogmatic theology is most prominent in Catholicism and its close relative, Calvinist Protestantism (see Jean Cauvin (aka John Calvin). Buddhist theology is the inverse ... whereas Christians are trying to come to positive knowledge (what can we know), Buddhists are trying to come to negative knowledge (what can we not know). Dogmatic Buddhism not surprisingly originated in the first Indian universities, such as at Nalanda ... just as Dogmatic Catholicism originated in the first European universities such as that at Paris.
That frames an answer to you, it isn't the answer itself. In dogmatic theology, I would make one or more assumptions (much more sticky than those in Euclidean geometry), and then use logic to derive the existence and personality of G-d, or at least the properties of the Absolute (if not personalist). The first is Western, the second is Eastern. In Buddhism/Hinduism, the deities are simply super-beings, not G-d in the sense of the Abrahamic religions at all. One line of reasoning (but for me reason is a tool, not a fetish) one can argue from cause/effect and Aristotle did so, and derived the Unmoved Mover ... because infinite regress was considered illogical. Today we deal with infinities more nimbly, so infinite regress is quite reasonable and useable, in say calculus and number theory. Thus the argument of Aristotle falls apart in better hands.
For me the question is the point, not the answer, let alone using a deductive technique (Greek or Indian) to find an answer. It is a matter of recognition ... and thus a question of psychology, not of physics. Of course a reductionist will try to derive psychology from physics, and if we are rigorous, will fail at doing so. The marketing materials of reductionists, like that of international bankers, will twist the truth a bit to avoid this conclusion. So what is the question? Well not all questions are qualitatively the same. The number of questions (quantity) is irrelevant. And qualitatively, I am not assuming that the question is rational. Remember that rational numbers are a subset of the real numbers, and that the other two categories of the real numbers are the irrational numbers (this is why Hippias of Metapontum, of the Pythagorean brotherhood, was murdered by the other Pythagoreans, because he revealed to outsiders (non-Barclay's bankers?) that there were irrational numbers (say the square root of two) or was it LIBOR manipulation?) ... and the transcendental numbers. You are simply by metaphor, limiting yourself to positive integers (no zero) and the ratios of those integers.
So good questions are ...
1. Is what I experience objective or subjective?
2. Is the dichotomy of objective/subjective a continuum or binary?
3. Is there an order to what I experience?
4. Is what I experience life or non-life?
5. Is the dichotomy of life/non-life a continuum or binary?
6. is what I experience conscious or unconscious?
7. Is consciousness/unconsciousness a continuum or binary?
8. Is experience rational or irrational? (see #3)
9. Is the dichotomy of rational/irrational a continuum or binary?
Those are some of the psychological questions one can ask oneself. There are some obvious assumptions involved in this list ... monism vs dualism vs pluralism ... discrete vs continuum ... order vs disorder etc. Just examine the first sections of any classical Roget's Thesaurus ... and you will see that these abstract categories are fundamental to any language, and therefore to any thought process.
Shalom
Is becoming like God good or evil? ipirate2, Thu Jul 5 15:53Is becoming like God good or evil? I would like to restrict giving God any other attribute except for knowing good and evil in this thread. Just for simplicity. I have two quotes I would like you to... more
A TED talk for Kasey ... Baruch, Fri Jul 13 21:50http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Gk_Ddhr0M&feature=relmfu This is from 4 years ago, and now we maybe have a single Higgs particle type from the LHC. In this generic discussion of E8 theory, one... more
Forgot to mention ... Baruch, Fri Jul 13 21:54this particular presenter should remind you of Mendeleyev, the inventor of the periodic table of elements. Only in this more modern science, the elements are not elementary, but are made up of more... more For a monotheist, obviously both ... Baruch, Thu Jul 5 18:18I mean monotheist, in the sense of metaphysical monism ... not the innumerate versions that have more than one god (devil etc). I can agree that G-d knows both sides of creation, being the Creator... more
All theoretical speculation based ona fundamental assumption (nm Kasey, Fri Jul 6 03:13
More than one assumption usually ... Baruch, Fri Jul 6 07:43while empirical backing is a good thing, that empirical data has to be interpreted. And the interpretation of data, from say the LHC, is a very complicated business. Of course in that case, no less... more
How do you have more than one assumption.... Kasey, Fri Jul 6 08:48that a creator god, by whatever name, actually exists? Regards, Kasey
Lecture on QM by Google software engineer ... Baruch, Fri Jul 6 11:33http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEaecUuEqfc This covers the present "spookiness" of QM. There is something illogical about the conventional understanding of QM, and he has a go at determining what the ... more
Most of the lecture is based on photons ... Baruch, Fri Jul 6 12:32and photons have really odd behavior compared to ordinary matter like electrons. In classical mechanics, if you try to deal with EM waves, you end up with infinities (this also happens with rest mass ... more
Do you regard any assumption as a theory??? (nm) Kasey, Sat Jul 7 03:27
Definitions ... Baruch, Sat Jul 7 06:56Per Physics: hypothesis = concept developed by the imagination, that is potentially repeatable, quantifiable and confirmable by public observation, Higgs boson for example theory = hypothesis... more
And for a god or gods assumption???? (nm) Kasey, Sat Jul 7 09:09
Not math and physical science ... Baruch, Sat Jul 7 11:16but metaphysics. I have posted a lot on metaphysics, both my own and Youtube. But no comments. 1. Ockham's Razor - make no more assumptions than necessary 2. Personal experience is the only criteria... more End of lecture ... Baruch, Fri Jul 6 12:13it applies to consciousness, just as the Schroedinger's Cat thought experiment applies to what consciousness is in a non-sensical way. In summary, human consciousness is a Turing Computer simulation... more- Theology is a branch of Metaphysics ... Baruch, Fri Jul 6 09:48
Mathematicians are idealists too ... Baruch, Fri Jul 6 08:06The Langlands program is the mathematicians equivalent of the on-going physics program of elementary particle unification that the LHC provides data for.... more Actual LHC chart ... Baruch, Fri Jul 6 07:55http://vixra.org/Combo/ Notice the peak of "geiger counts" around 125 Gev. An atom smasher experimental array (such as ATLAS) is a very large, very complicated version of a Geiger counter. It takes... more Re: For a monotheist, obviously both ... ipirate2, Thu Jul 5 20:37Interesting. Especially the Gnostic aspect but I am not sure it any of us would use the word complete. http://gnosticschristians.com/page3.html When I tell people about my apotheosis, I quickly point ... more
There were cross-ocean communications ... Baruch, Thu Jul 5 22:08long before Columbus. But on the more metaphysical point ... this is why people like Jung believe in a collective unconscious ... though he stole the idea from Buddhism ... where it is the... more
Re: There were cross-ocean communications ... ipirate2, Sun Jul 8 08:53Every hero has to have something to overcome. "and we no longer regard one side better than another." It may be that I will never reach a higher consciousness then as even as I recognize the worth of ... more
Self-transcendence .... Baruch, Sun Jul 8 09:40http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene Well this may account for the ability of children to see circles and squares as personalities ... but not why adults loose the ability to fantasize or empathize. ... more
Re: Self-transcendence .... ipirate2, Sun Jul 8 09:47I do not think we lose it. We just choose to compete instead of cooperate. That may be tied to our greed or insecurity. Regards DL Great disappointment ... Baruch, Sun Jul 8 09:30nobody ever asked me what my line of classical Chinese verse meant ;-( Philistines, surrounded by Philistines! Shalom Several ideas ... Baruch, Sun Jul 8 09:281. The goal is equanimity, to not be overly motivated by good and overly turned off by bad 2. It takes parents several years to corrupt their preschoolers 3. Replace all the bankers and politicians... more
Re: Several ideas ... ipirate2, Sun Jul 8 09:58I do not dislike God either but as a Gnostic, it is my duty to set the God I found aside, raise the bar of my expectations and try to find a better one. To not do so is idol worship. Regards DL
For me at this stage of my life ... Baruch, Sun Jul 8 13:12I have gone from better to better in my conception of G-d, ever since I first seriously thought about the subject over 40 years ago. But the highest I have gotten so far, is to try to do good, even... more
Re: For me at this stage of my life ... ipirate2, Sun Jul 8 13:49We walk in the same direction my friend. Regards DL
It may be a platitude ... Baruch, Sun Jul 8 17:21but we are walking toward the light, not the darkness. We may have to put up with a few clouds, even thunderstorms, awhile yet. Shalom
Re: It may be a platitude ... ipirate2, Sun Jul 8 19:57I agree. Statistics are showing us how good we are actually doing even as many of those out of the loop still think the sky is falling. I think this site is excellent if you have time to check their... more
This TED is factual ... Baruch, Sun Jul 8 22:30though the underlying agenda of TED is globalism/imperialism. Notice that all countries where they don't have extreme poverty/high child mortality ... they are reducing how many children each,... more
Re: This TED is factual ... ipirate2, Mon Jul 9 13:44No argument. I E. The church against science. Regards DL Try tell that to the Europeans re M.E. migration!! (nm) Kasey, Mon Jul 9 05:39
You are so ... Baruch, Mon Jul 9 06:03much like your White cousins in Alabama in tone ;-( If the Europeans didn't import low cost labor, they wouldn't have to worry. As long as they allow the gutter capitalists to run everything, nothing ... more
You perpetually mix racism up with what some call.... Kasey, Tue Jul 10 05:56religionism....but in the case where Islam is involved it is far more than that....Ideology [ism]. Thus your comparisons are erroneous. Would you have said the same to anyone who protested about the... more
The tone of your previous post ... Baruch, Tue Jul 10 06:41more than the words, was suspicious. I know from your previous posts, and this one, that you can talk Progressive when you want to. One time however, you indicated that per the UN, one had to accept... more
We here have the highest rate of refugee migration per head Kasey, Tue Jul 10 18:54in the world....ie legal migration via the UN conventions, from those seeking asylum and from camps. These boat refugees are jumping the so-called queue, ahead of those who have applied thru' proper... more
