GlennI think the problem is meaning...Sat May 19, 2012 8:36am184.108.40.206...from an objective point of view, most people's lives are meaningless...they are born, live their lives, and die, without ever doing anything to rise above the noise level.
Of the seven billion humans alive right now, how many of them will be remembered by ANY one a hundred years from now.
The alternative is to try to pretend that every life has meaning, which is what leads to the whole 'life begins at conception' idiocy that Monty Python's The Meaning of Life skewered so well with it's 'Every Sperm is Sacred' skit.
The worst part is that when you try to pretend that every life has meaning, you stretch the curve so far that the ones that DO make noticeable and meaningful contributions to the advancement of humanity then become pretty much meaningless themselves.
Once again proving that so-called conservatives are hypocrites who just use Christianity for a power base 8^p
- Life begins at conception is nonsense. Timothy, Fri May 18 11:22pmThe egg is alive, the sperm cell is alive. Just how can life "begin" at that time if it was already there?
- Life Begins When David F Mayer, Thu May 24 8:02pmthe last kid leaves the house. David F Mayer
- I guess you never took H.S. Biology, eh? RthB, Tue May 22 3:54pmThe egg by it self dies. The sperm by itself dies. The Embryo, which is a fertilized egg, grows by extremely complex cell replication. This replication includes extremely complex manufacturing (by... more
- Still looking for the beginning. Timothy, Tue May 22 10:05pmSo what exactly in your story was not alive and then began living? The embryo didn't spring from non-living material did it?
- What kind of life? BK, Mon May 21 8:27amYou'll find you get further in discussions with pro-lifers if you don't misrepresent their position. BK
- Nonsense greenman, Mon May 21 6:50pmHe wasn't misrepresenting their positions, only questioning their assertions. Assertions I would regard as superstitious, based as they are on abstract concepts like 'the soul.' You're quite good at... more
- His question BK, Sat May 26 1:25pmincluded an implied assertion that pro-lifers are speaking of a particular type of life, else his question would make no sense. BK
- Human egg, human sperm cell. Timothy, Mon May 21 11:16amWhat do pro-lifers think the life is if not human?
- You really haven't been paying attention BK, Mon May 21 12:26pmHave you? BK
- Pro-lifers don't think life begins at conception? Timothy, Mon May 21 12:30pmIt's fine as a religious belief, it's just not fact.
- Dear Timothy BK, Fri May 25 5:38amDefine "life". See, if you don't qualify the sense of the word, you'll end up talking past people and/or misrepresenting their position, just as you are doing in this thread. Sincerely, BK
- Absolutely true! shadow, Mon May 21 9:00amand the very reason why it is avoided! Hi, BK.
- Hey shadow! (nm) BK, Tue May 22 6:53am
- Or it's avoided by anti-abortionists... Timothy, Mon May 21 11:19ambecause life can't be beginning, when it's already there.
- Exactly greenman, Mon May 21 7:02pmComplex considerations of the question of the beginnings of life and the nature of being human would upset their apple-cart, bumper-sticker sayings and all.
- Here is a guy who is very wondering, Sun May 20 6:28ampro-life! A 33-yr-old man who has 30 children with 11 different women. He makes minimum wage, and half of that goes to support his children. Some of the mothers of his children receive only $1.49 a... more
- The Perfect Welfare Dad! (nm) David F Mayer, Thu May 24 8:09pm
- wondering you bring up a topic Trish, Sun May 20 6:52amthat's been near to my heart for years. IMO If you're going to be "pro life" vs. "pro choice" then you better damn sure to offer a way to take care of those kids. Thus far I see no such plan ... and... more
- Why, that goes against the Republican grain! Truthteller, Sun May 20 3:56pmthey ONLY care about kids when they are in utero. After they're born, all these bleeding heart "cons" don't give two squats. That is why they want welfare, food stamps, etc. abolished. Guess they... more
- I hear you. wondering, Sun May 20 12:06pmBut often "wanted" children are not well cared for, either. Just because people are poor doesn't mean they don't want (their) children. The larger the gap between rich and poor gets, the more that... more
- I think a better question is when does spirit arrive? Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 5:58pmTimothy, I think a better question is when does spirit arrive and personality develop? Early Christianity seemed to consider that sprit or soul arrived with the first breath. Even then in the early... more
- That is a better question. The Bible says... Timothy, Sun May 20 7:22amGod breathed life into man. Not God squirted life into man. That was why I thought we considered life to begin at birth. If it begins at conception, why are children only tax exemptions after birth?... more
- Bacteria, viruses and deadly toxins... Truthteller, Sat May 19 8:43pmare "life" also. But where do we draw the line?? Traditionally, a human child is deemed a "person" when it is able to breathe on its own, independent of the mother. Though your first sentence... more
- A New Life kw, Sat May 19 2:57pmThe conception of a new life - beginning. Even if it's produced in a petri dish, it's life. The mother and father are "life" though, and they are the ones to give thought to bringing a child into the ... more
- I think the problem is meaning... Glenn, Sat May 19 8:36am
- LOL ... Mondo Fuego™ , Sat May 19 12:24pm... what arrogance ... you know about "most people's lives" from an "objective point of view". Dayum, it's getting deep in here ... throw out your hats, folks ... it's too late to save your boots. I... more
- Your problem is that you assume... Glenn, Sat May 19 3:35pm...that I don't believe I'm one of those who will die a meaningless death. I wonder why that is? Is it because it makes it simple to prejudge me and dismiss me without actually having to address any... more
- My sperm's future.. Tinfoil, Sat May 19 5:17pm..means a wipe-up with paper towel then flung into the wastebasket next to my bed. I could have them gold plated and mounted on my bedroom wall if you'd prefer that.
- Look on the bright side... Truthteller, Sat May 19 8:48pmif you can still ejaculate, you're doing ok. ;)
- It might do wonders for gold futures though Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 6:02pmTinfoil, When you consider how many billions of them there are, and each would deserve its on mounting. Are you sure that you have enough room in your house, or would you have the build a whole new... more
- No, the problem is ignorance! shadow, Sat May 19 10:36amThe kind that draws conclusions with insufficient and/or incorrect premises.
- Indeed...like concluding the existance of God... Glenn, Sat May 19 10:55am...from old myths and wishful thinking? Seriously, what evidence is there that ANY God or Gods exist, or that yours is the only one?
- You do know, don't you, that false shadow, Sat May 19 2:22pmpremises cannot lead to a true conclusion, and that's what you've done here - nothing new with you, but you really need to work on your premises!
- You obviously know little of cognition... Glenn, Sat May 19 2:45pm...since there are no absolutes in our senses or our thought processes, then it's really not that hard to be right for the wrong reasons, or wrong for the right reasons...you've heard those phrases,... more
- hey Glenn - watch out Trish, Sun May 20 6:47amfor spilling that seed LOL
- I'm sure you think you make points, shadow, Sun May 20 12:13amGlenn, while nailing Jello to a tree! As we watch it drip to the ground, please say you understand why your position there with your feet planted in midair does little to instill confidence that you... more
- Are you sure... Kevin, Sat May 19 1:13pmthat is what shadow believes? I know I don't. I don't conclude there is a "God that exists" based on old myths and wishful thinking. Far from it. The Christian tradition does not teach that either... more
- "They" ... Mondo Fuego™ , Sat May 19 4:58pm... don't get it over here. They want a visible "god" like Obama and Facebook. ;)
- That might help of course Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 6:15pmMondo Fuego™, We are told in so many stories of when the god/s walked the earth and talked with their people, and did not have to depend on fallible humans to get the message unchanged t the people.... more
- Naw, all we want is a definition and location Clawson, Sat May 19 5:56pm...together with a concrete explanation of how it works.
- Of course I'm not sure...but I believe it's a logical... Glenn, Sat May 19 3:45pm...conclusion based on the fact that she attacked my argument without actually stating what part of my premise she thought was incorrect or, more to the point, WHY it was wrong. So what else am I... more
- You KNOW what your premises were. shadow, Sun May 20 9:59amYou didn't understand that I was saying that?
- "Cut to the chase." First we must define "life". Clawson, Sat May 19 8:06amIn terms of sentient beings, there is an important definition that is always ignored. Mind Over Matter
- Guess it ... Mondo Fuego™ , Sat May 19 7:33am... all depends on your definition of "life". The world would be better off if lots of those sperm and eggs had never courted each other. :)
- And when wondering, Sat May 19 5:56amthose live egg and sperm cells (that each have the potential of becoming a child if nurtured to full development) are purposefully killed, discarded and denied their "right" to continue living and... more
- So non-persons can be murdered? BK, Fri May 25 5:48amDoes anyone on either side of the debate think that the egg and sperm are persons that have rights? Seriously? BK
- Fully Correct Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 6:33pmwondering The fact that none of the churches had burial ceremonies for those that did not make it to birth shows they were not considered to be people with souls. We have created a quagmire when we... more
- Don't know if you remember... Truthteller, Sat May 19 8:50pmbut a few years ago, and under tremendous duress, the RCC announced that babies who hadn't been baptized prior to death would NOT suffer the torment of Purgatory but would go straight to Heaven. Of... more
- But those born then are at risk? Christopher Blackwell , Sun May 20 6:00pmTruthteller, I could make a joke out of that but it would upset people.
- Again ... Anonymous, Sat May 19 12:27pm... your logic is flawed. If we walk on out neighbor's lawn, chances are we are not hurting anything. If we walk on the hood of his Ferrari which was made entirely from stuff like contained in our... more
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