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Truthteller
Bacteria, viruses and deadly toxins...
Sat May 19, 2012 8:43pm
66.185.227.238

are "life" also. But where do we draw the line??

Traditionally, a human child is deemed a "person" when it is able to breathe on its own, independent of the mother. Though your first sentence accurately describes how the folks in the Middle Ages felt about it.

Don't know if you follow "Game of Thrones," but in the books, one tribe didn't name their children until they were 2 yrs. old.

  • Life begins at conception is nonsense. — Timothy, Fri May 18 11:22pm
    The egg is alive, the sperm cell is alive. Just how can life "begin" at that time if it was already there?
    • Life Begins When — David F Mayer, Thu May 24 8:02pm
      the last kid leaves the house. David F Mayer
    • I guess you never took H.S. Biology, eh? — RthB, Tue May 22 3:54pm
      The egg by it self dies. The sperm by itself dies. The Embryo, which is a fertilized egg, grows by extremely complex cell replication. This replication includes extremely complex manufacturing (by... more
      • Still looking for the beginning. — Timothy, Tue May 22 10:05pm
        So what exactly in your story was not alive and then began living? The embryo didn't spring from non-living material did it?
    • What kind of life? — BK, Mon May 21 8:27am
      You'll find you get further in discussions with pro-lifers if you don't misrepresent their position. BK
      • Nonsense — greenman, Mon May 21 6:50pm
        He wasn't misrepresenting their positions, only questioning their assertions. Assertions I would regard as superstitious, based as they are on abstract concepts like 'the soul.' You're quite good at... more
        • His question — BK, Sat May 26 1:25pm
          included an implied assertion that pro-lifers are speaking of a particular type of life, else his question would make no sense. BK
      • Human egg, human sperm cell. — Timothy, Mon May 21 11:16am
        What do pro-lifers think the life is if not human?
      • Absolutely true! — shadow, Mon May 21 9:00am
        and the very reason why it is avoided! Hi, BK.
        • Hey shadow! (nm) — BK, Tue May 22 6:53am
        • Or it's avoided by anti-abortionists... — Timothy, Mon May 21 11:19am
          because life can't be beginning, when it's already there.
          • Exactly — greenman, Mon May 21 7:02pm
            Complex considerations of the question of the beginnings of life and the nature of being human would upset their apple-cart, bumper-sticker sayings and all.
    • Here is a guy who is very — wondering, Sun May 20 6:28am
      pro-life! A 33-yr-old man who has 30 children with 11 different women. He makes minimum wage, and half of that goes to support his children. Some of the mothers of his children receive only $1.49 a... more
      • The Perfect Welfare Dad! (nm) — David F Mayer, Thu May 24 8:09pm
      • wondering you bring up a topic — Trish, Sun May 20 6:52am
        that's been near to my heart for years. IMO If you're going to be "pro life" vs. "pro choice" then you better damn sure to offer a way to take care of those kids. Thus far I see no such plan ... and... more
        • Why, that goes against the Republican grain! — Truthteller, Sun May 20 3:56pm
          they ONLY care about kids when they are in utero. After they're born, all these bleeding heart "cons" don't give two squats. That is why they want welfare, food stamps, etc. abolished. Guess they... more
        • I hear you. — wondering, Sun May 20 12:06pm
          But often "wanted" children are not well cared for, either. Just because people are poor doesn't mean they don't want (their) children. The larger the gap between rich and poor gets, the more that... more
    • I think a better question is when does spirit arrive? — Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 5:58pm
      Timothy, I think a better question is when does spirit arrive and personality develop? Early Christianity seemed to consider that sprit or soul arrived with the first breath. Even then in the early... more
      • That is a better question. The Bible says... — Timothy, Sun May 20 7:22am
        God breathed life into man. Not God squirted life into man. That was why I thought we considered life to begin at birth. If it begins at conception, why are children only tax exemptions after birth?... more
      • Bacteria, viruses and deadly toxins... — Truthteller, Sat May 19 8:43pm
    • A New Life — kw, Sat May 19 2:57pm
      The conception of a new life - beginning. Even if it's produced in a petri dish, it's life. The mother and father are "life" though, and they are the ones to give thought to bringing a child into the ... more
    • I think the problem is meaning... — Glenn, Sat May 19 8:36am
      ...from an objective point of view, most people's lives are meaningless...they are born, live their lives, and die, without ever doing anything to rise above the noise level. Of the seven billion... more
      • LOL ... — Mondo Fuego™ , Sat May 19 12:24pm
        ... what arrogance ... you know about "most people's lives" from an "objective point of view". Dayum, it's getting deep in here ... throw out your hats, folks ... it's too late to save your boots. I... more
        • Your problem is that you assume... — Glenn, Sat May 19 3:35pm
          ...that I don't believe I'm one of those who will die a meaningless death. I wonder why that is? Is it because it makes it simple to prejudge me and dismiss me without actually having to address any... more
          • My sperm's future.. — Tinfoil, Sat May 19 5:17pm
            ..means a wipe-up with paper towel then flung into the wastebasket next to my bed. I could have them gold plated and mounted on my bedroom wall if you'd prefer that.
            • Look on the bright side... — Truthteller, Sat May 19 8:48pm
              if you can still ejaculate, you're doing ok. ;)
            • It might do wonders for gold futures though — Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 6:02pm
              Tinfoil, When you consider how many billions of them there are, and each would deserve its on mounting. Are you sure that you have enough room in your house, or would you have the build a whole new... more
      • No, the problem is ignorance! — shadow, Sat May 19 10:36am
        The kind that draws conclusions with insufficient and/or incorrect premises.
        • Indeed...like concluding the existance of God... — Glenn, Sat May 19 10:55am
          ...from old myths and wishful thinking? Seriously, what evidence is there that ANY God or Gods exist, or that yours is the only one?
          • You do know, don't you, that false — shadow, Sat May 19 2:22pm
            premises cannot lead to a true conclusion, and that's what you've done here - nothing new with you, but you really need to work on your premises!
            • You obviously know little of cognition... — Glenn, Sat May 19 2:45pm
              ...since there are no absolutes in our senses or our thought processes, then it's really not that hard to be right for the wrong reasons, or wrong for the right reasons...you've heard those phrases,... more
              • hey Glenn - watch out — Trish, Sun May 20 6:47am
                for spilling that seed LOL
              • I'm sure you think you make points, — shadow, Sun May 20 12:13am
                Glenn, while nailing Jello to a tree! As we watch it drip to the ground, please say you understand why your position there with your feet planted in midair does little to instill confidence that you... more
          • Are you sure... — Kevin, Sat May 19 1:13pm
            that is what shadow believes? I know I don't. I don't conclude there is a "God that exists" based on old myths and wishful thinking. Far from it. The Christian tradition does not teach that either... more
            • "They" ... — Mondo Fuego™ , Sat May 19 4:58pm
              ... don't get it over here. They want a visible "god" like Obama and Facebook. ;)
              • That might help of course — Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 6:15pm
                Mondo Fuego™, We are told in so many stories of when the god/s walked the earth and talked with their people, and did not have to depend on fallible humans to get the message unchanged t the people.... more
                • Funny that, in my city this weekend... — Truthteller, Sat May 19 8:47pm
                  (according to an ad in the paper) is a man who runs the evangelical circuit speaking at some church about how the New Testament was written. Being that he is speaking to Christians, I am sure it will ... more
              • Naw, all we want is a definition and location — Clawson, Sat May 19 5:56pm
                ...together with a concrete explanation of how it works.
            • Of course I'm not sure...but I believe it's a logical... — Glenn, Sat May 19 3:45pm
              ...conclusion based on the fact that she attacked my argument without actually stating what part of my premise she thought was incorrect or, more to the point, WHY it was wrong. So what else am I... more
    • "Cut to the chase." First we must define "life". — Clawson, Sat May 19 8:06am
      In terms of sentient beings, there is an important definition that is always ignored. Mind Over Matter
    • Guess it ... — Mondo Fuego™ , Sat May 19 7:33am
      ... all depends on your definition of "life". The world would be better off if lots of those sperm and eggs had never courted each other. :)
      • Recently discovered micro-organism — Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 6:24pm
        Mondo Fuego™ Under the sea in food and oxygen low areas where the microbes might almost be considered in suspended animation,barely living but perhaps thousands of years old or much older. So indeed... more
    • And when — wondering, Sat May 19 5:56am
      those live egg and sperm cells (that each have the potential of becoming a child if nurtured to full development) are purposefully killed, discarded and denied their "right" to continue living and... more
      • So non-persons can be murdered? — BK, Fri May 25 5:48am
        Does anyone on either side of the debate think that the egg and sperm are persons that have rights? Seriously? BK
        • Potential persons — wondering, Fri May 25 8:27pm
          Eggs and sperm have the potential to become persons, just as a fertilized egg or zygote has the potential to become a person. Who says eggs and sperm are "non-persons"? There is always someone in the ... more
      • Fully Correct — Christopher Blackwell , Sat May 19 6:33pm
        wondering The fact that none of the churches had burial ceremonies for those that did not make it to birth shows they were not considered to be people with souls. We have created a quagmire when we... more
        • Don't know if you remember... — Truthteller, Sat May 19 8:50pm
          but a few years ago, and under tremendous duress, the RCC announced that babies who hadn't been baptized prior to death would NOT suffer the torment of Purgatory but would go straight to Heaven. Of... more
      • Again ... — Anonymous, Sat May 19 12:27pm
        ... your logic is flawed. If we walk on out neighbor's lawn, chances are we are not hurting anything. If we walk on the hood of his Ferrari which was made entirely from stuff like contained in our... more
        • LOL — wondering, Sat May 19 1:03pm
          When a guy leaves a brake pedal on his neighbor's lawn, he can hardly be upset that his neighbor chooses to discard it and not build a Ferrari around that brake pedal. lol
          • Thank you ... — Mondo Fuego™ , Sat May 19 1:24pm
            ... for making my point.
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