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theists and atheists are merely flip sides of the same coin.
Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:12am

Both are BELIEVERS... One in something and one that something doesn't exist... Both are SURE... Both are foolish if they think that it's anything but a BELIEF system because belief is NOT knowledge... It is nothing but faith in one's own POV...

Agnostics, like me, don't actively believe nor do we disbelieve... We understand that we don't KNOW anything...

The problem is only when believers (atheists & theists) are so SURE that they trick themselves into believing that they KNOW because they've had experiences that 'confirm' their beliefs, without recognizing that perception is everything...

For example: If you believe in a god that cares about everything that happens to you, then when you escape a bad situation by the skin of your teeth when others don't or it seems miraculous that you did, then you 'thank god'... Usually you DON'T wonder why you were in that bad situation to begin with, but if you do wonder why, then you pass it off as god's way of 'proving his existence to you by saving you' from it because you believed in him...

HELLO? So why didn't he save everyone else? You're more special or something? (Oh yes! don't we all love being extra special to our parents, teachers, bosses, & others with authority over us??) Everyone else must not have had ENOUGH faith... and your faith is INCREASED based on what you think just happened...

Example: Something tragic befalls you... You're devastated... Your faith tells you that god will get you through it so you embrace that... You get through it by believing that it was 'meant to be' and that god carried you when you were stumbling and you remind yourself that the physical world is not the same as the spiritual world so your pain is only temporal and will pass... Your faith increases based on what you expected to happen... Your expectation is WHY it happened... You saw what you wanted to see... It was all based on an internal, personal experience that remained the same 'totally out of control' situation on the outside, BUT, you had full control over it internally because you assigned god as 'in control' and gave in to your faith... Thus, you see it from that POV... and you cannot explain that to anyone else because they didn't live it... If they don't believe or have faith, they cannot understand and think you daft... or deluded... You feel sorry for them...

It's just as easy to use identical situations to claim that there is NO god... Why did one live and 50 die? Random... Not faith... Not god... After all, at least half of the dead 50 had as much faith as the survivor...

Human beings are soft-wired to wonder about things that other creatures don't seem to have the slightest concerns about: the past & the future... where we came from... where we go when we die... and all kinds of other things that take us beyond the here & now battle for life, food, sex, etc...

Wanna bet that humans never thought about such things until the raw intelligence inherent within allowed our early ancestors to develop effective weapons to protect themselves as well as to hunt... learned to harness fire for warmth and security... and learned to build homes so they didn't have to sleep in the open, totally vulnerable... If you're in a constant battle to survive and to find food, who has TIME to wonder about the stars?

and hey, for all WE know, cows and other animals may KNOW the answers that we don't know, therefore, they don't even think about it... but we think they are incapable of it, when, in reality, they have no NEED to... it could be so... Unlikely, but ya never know...

As for the sacred books supposedly inspired by god that are full of wonderful philosophy... SERIOUSLY? Did it never occur to you that what ancient man **thought** he saw, so interpreted it as miraculous or whatever, was due to their IGNORANCE? After all, 15th century humans all believed that the earth was flat... They were obviously wrong... But, the greater point is that those ancient humans who made incredible claims that someone was a messenger of god could have been being duped by a marvelous magician claiming to be from god...

and HOW do you explain the multiple 'messages' in the form of multiple religions? Does it make any rational sense to actually believe that what YOU embrace is the 'ONLY TRUTH'??


That reminds me of cows who learn that a long string of wire attached to multiple posts has the power to shock them painfully, but they DON'T realize that the wire is nothing but a VESSEL for the electric current sent through it by a generator and that if it is turned off, it can't hurt them... But they remain fearful of that wire... Were they ancient humans who encountered it, they'd be AMAZED and assign some deity as the cause, and revere wires from then on...

  • some atheists hate theists so I call them "hatetheists". No hate, no effort. It makes me sad and I pray for atheists because they are missing SO MUCH that I can experience but not really understand.... more
    • theists and atheists are merely flip sides of the same coin. — Sia☺giah, Wed Sep 11 7:12am
      • I'm referring here to the claim appearing in the subject field of your post. Below is a discussion from Dan Barker's book Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist which defines atheism in such ... more
      • based on lack of knowledge. Why don't you discuss what I know instead of claiming I don't know? My belief is not based on experiences but history, prophecy, etc. as I've mentioned many times before.... more
        • Primitive man...wondering, Wed Sep 11 8:38am
          couldn't read scripture, so how could they know God? At least that is what you said about cows. lol
          • sia, wonderingjb, Wed Sep 11 10:48am
            Knowledge of God was passed by word of mouth. Cows can't do that. sia, you're right, you're getting pretty boring. If you think i'm wrong just point out what is right. Don't know what "bait" you... more
            • Moving the goal post I see...wondering, Wed Sep 11 12:01pm
              How do you know what cows can or can't do? Animals communicate in many ways that you have no knowledge of. They may have knowledge, thoughts, dreams and imaginations that you have no knowledge of.... more
              • science indicates what their mental capacities are. It's not just something I made up. When man learned to read and write most of us lost much of our ability to memorize poems and prose that last... more
                • Did you not...wondering, Wed Sep 11 12:30pm
                  pay any attention to the discussions on animals here recently. Science has had to reevaluate what "mental capacities" animals are capable of. My dogs have very good memories. They also have ways of... more
                  • and Baha'u'llah, Abdul Baha and forget about capacity of animals. No doubt some animals have abilities we don't understand but no animal is comparable to humans. I've had very smart dogs and cats but ... more
                    • Did Gandhi go around....wondering, Wed Sep 11 3:54pm
                      insulting and calling atheists hatetheists? Maybe you need to take a clue from people like Gandhi yourself. Why not try it?
                      • call believers "religitards" or "idiots" "morons" etc. It's not an insult but refers to atheists who insult believers and God. Gandhi is always my hero and I try to use him as an example. Is he your... more
                        • in this thread but you. You have a problem with that. Deal with it.
                          • WRONG, you did, here:jb, Thu Sep 12 11:59am
                            wondering There you go again... Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:09am showing your hatred toward those who do not believe what you believe. I don't hate and it'snot just a matter of this thread but... more
                            • Back upwondering, Thu Sep 12 12:17pm
                              That was in response to your hateful attack on atheism and "hatetheists" here:;article=1486556;title=Religion%20and%20Ethics%20BBS
                              • So, what is hateful about that? I don't see any hate from me in that post. "hatetheist" is a word I coined to refer to atheists who hate theists and I don't feel any hate. "Religitard" is hateful.... more
                                • Wrong again.wondering, Thu Sep 12 2:29pm
                                  It is hateful because you are not referring to anyone in particular nor anyone in this thread. You show your hatred toward atheists and atheism time and time again by starting these threads,... more
        • LMAO... whatEVER... Sia☺giah, Wed Sep 11 8:31am
          Get some new bait... This stuff stinks and it's become too boring... It's just too old and, for crissakes, you can't use the same old bait forever and expect to reel in the same fish...
    • It appears that...wondering, Wed Sep 11 6:56am
      you have been brainwashed alright, and not just by your mother. You've been brainwashed by your religious scriptures, fears, beliefs, leaders... As Sia pointed out, you are just as much a "dumb"... more
      • Hate to burst your bubble, (not really), but MOST fervent religious believers are basically followers too... and they suspend disbelief in exchange for 'pretty lies' that soothe their deep seated,... more
        • You should ask yourself...wondering, Wed Sep 11 7:34am
          why you hate atheists. Is it because you fear that they may be right and you may be wrong? That you may have wasted 40 years of your life believing and studying something that is based on lies or... more
        • Whatta PITA you are being...Sia☺giah, Wed Sep 11 7:26am
          I'm not buying, and never did, that you are honestly this dense... or that you actually believe that 'god is NOT unproven'... or anything else you ALL CAPPED US WITH... Sorry, you're trolling and... more
          • wondering, siajb, Wed Sep 11 10:25am
            wondering: How do I hate atheists? My 40 yrs of life as a believer have brought incredible Love and Happiness. Truth is not a lie. Love is not a lie. Why do you hate believers? Are you afraid they... more
            • ROFL... I'll take that as your admission... Sia☺giah, Wed Sep 11 10:50pm
              Whether it was to being 'that stupid' or to being the talented troll I'm totally sure you are, who cares?
            • I am not the one...wondering, Wed Sep 11 12:15pm
              who keeps insulting and talking about how "hateful" believers are. You show your hatred toward unbelievers quite often, as you have done again in this thread. There's no need to be afraid of... more
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