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Quantafyre
Amadeus - on simulations
Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:52am
66.86.14.216

“The very nature of the "problem" you point out is actually evidence to the contrary of the conclusion you draw. The simplest solution is that we are in a simulation, since simulations could be run within simulations, etc. ad nauseum. That only increases the number of simulations to objective reality ratio.”

***This statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. “The very nature of the "problem" you point out is actually evidence to the contrary of the conclusion you draw.” You make this statement and then go on as if it is self-evident. It is not. The simplest solution is not that we are in a simulation. The simplest solution is that the objective reality we find ourselves in is exactly that – an objective universe. By entering the notion that it is in fact a simulation falls prey to the same argument of a God that created the universe. Then who created that God? Well, that God has always existed. Then why the need for the God in the first place? The universe always existing is the simplest solution. It is the same with your proposition of a simulation. What is doing the simulating? And then what is doing THAT simulation, etc. That is what I meant by the problem being infinite regress. It is the same logical problem with a creator deity. You have presented no cogent argument against my proposition.***

“You pointed out something that makes it MORE likely we are in a simulation.”

***My previous point destroys that idea logically.***

“Logically, without an objective reality, there is nothing to run the initial simulation(s), so we know that the regression cannot be infinite.”

***This makes no sense either. Without an objective reality then we have nothing period. The regression not being infinite is absolutely moot. The concept is without meaning, since an INITIAL simulation cannot even take place.***

“However, at this point, we cannot be certain that (having penetrated to any depth of uncovering simulated realities) that we have ever actually found that objective reality.”

***Without the notion of a sim, 'actually finding that objective reality' becomes itself irrelevant because there is no further reality to uncover. We are already there. How simple can it get?***

“There is a core to our planet. I could start digging with a shovel, and with each new layer I encounter, I cannot be sure that I have reached the core. Eventually, my ability to dig any deeper will be surpassed. Just because I can envision that my best efforts might not reveal the actual core to me does not mean that the descent must therefore be infinite and therefore not real.”

***This metaphorical journey adds nothing meaningful to the discussion, IMO.***

    • I Don't Think You're Following My Point...Amadeus, Sun Nov 27 10:32pm
      We already create a myriad of simulations (for example, I have a handful of my own that have been created in various video games). Think about all the intelligences in those simulations, and then add ... more
      • ReplyQuantafyre, Mon Nov 28 6:53am
        Your explanation reads like an interesting sci fi short story. But until compelling evidence indicates otherwise, that is all that it is. And yes, it's also true that we have created simple (so far)... more
        • AH!Amadeus, Mon Nov 28 7:48am
          I really like your condensed argument: In any possible configuration of reality, we accept that whether or not there are any simulations, there is always an objective reality. Therefore, it makes... more
          • At long lastQuantafyre, Mon Nov 28 10:34am
            “I really like your condensed argument:” ***Thanks. I'll try to be briefer in the future.*** 8^) “In any possible configuration of reality, we accept that whether or not there are any simulations,... more
            • I Hope This Does Not Bother You...Amadeus, Mon Nov 28 1:09pm
              But now that I understand your argument better, I want to expound on where I think you are missing mine. I believe your fundamental error is making the objective universe (which is a fundamental... more
              • Of course it does not bother me.Quantafyre, Tue Nov 29 6:39am
                Ultimately it does not alter the general flow of my life. I do enjoy a debate with an intellectual equal so the time was well spent. I'm glad it provided the same for you.
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