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SES
I think I have a new hero.
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:54am
108.171.130.166 (XFF: 198.101.7.220)

I just started reading "Why I am not a Christian", which is a compilation of speeches and pamphlets and articles written by Bertrand Russell.

I haven't gotten that far into it, but I've already said to myself several times "That's exactly what I think, too".

I'm going to start it again, and make margin notes and underline key parts.

He must have been a great man to sit and have a cup of coffee -- or tea -- with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP4FDLegX9s

Keep your eye out for the Orbital Teapot (nm) — PureStevil, Wed Nov 29 6:47pm

Welcome aboard! — Poppet, Wed Nov 29 9:32am

Ol' Bertie's one of my favorite thinkers...
only read a little - help with sources — Trish, Wed Nov 29 12:47pm

have some suggested starting points for "newbies"?
I'd suggest these: — Poppet, Thu Nov 30 10:38am

Problems of Philosophy Human Knowledge: Its Scope and Limits Logic and Knowledge Why I Am Not a Christian along with the excellent The Life of Bertrand Russell in Pictures and His Own Words (edited... more
What about Sean Carroll's "The Big Picture"? (nm) — PureStevil, Fri Dec 1 4:04pm

I haven't read it. — Poppet, Sat Dec 2 10:43am

I need to remedy that, particularly as I hadn't really realized that he goes beyond straight-up physics (which I also read a lot of, as it happens). The list I gave Trish was specifically... more
i am going to need a cold — Trish, Sun Dec 3 10:28am

blustery day to honker down with any of those... but its worth a try
Russel was indeed brilliant, but NOT a moral guide. — DFM, Wed Nov 29 7:39am

Read about his private life and you will get the picture. DFM
A great philosopher and atheist and IMMORAL. GREAT guide? (nm) — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:38pm

Exactly! — shadow, Wed Nov 29 9:01am

He's delightful to read, and a real thought provoker. He just missed the key point, imo.
Not that I need a "moral guide", or that I'm without "sin".. — SES, Wed Nov 29 8:26am

...but I don't see anything in his private life that indicates a lack or morality. What, in particular, are you referring to?
Bertie had adulterous affairs with dozens of women. (nm) — DFM, Wed Nov 29 9:48am

And jesus advocated eternal suffering for finite sins. So? — SES, Wed Nov 29 10:38am

Big deal. He fell out of love with his first wife, and out of a relationship with his second wife because she had two kids with another man. Having been in bad relationships myself, I try not to... more
It is not a few, but MANY that I consider immoral. — DFM, Wed Nov 29 2:57pm

I don't draw any hard and fast lines, but dozens of women are entirely too many. DFM
What makes that immoral? — SES, Thu Nov 30 5:41am

I've had sex with over 30 women. What makes that immoral? I doubt Bertrand Russell had affairs with 24 or more women. And, as I said, having been in bad relationships myself, I try not to judge the... more
Human use of human beings is immoral. — DFM, Thu Nov 30 7:34am

I cannot imagine a man having sex with a large number of women for any purpose other than sexual gratification. DFM
Again, what's immoral about that? — SES, Thu Nov 30 8:41am

What's immoral about having consensual sex for reasons of sexual gratification? Do you consider consensual sex "using a human being"? Why? If two people are attracted to each other and have sex, how... more
If you don't understand that casual sex is immoral, then I — DFM, Thu Nov 30 12:34pm

cannot explain it to you. DFM
that's another odd viewpoint from you — Trish, Thu Nov 30 2:53pm

who cares what two consenting adults do with each other privately ... casual or not.
It is NOT my business, but it is STILL immoral. — DFM, Fri Dec 1 10:53am

And society pays heavy consequences. Disease. Divorce. Violence. DFM
They spread diseases and death and they retard the evolution — jb, Thu Nov 30 3:19pm

of Mankind.
The only thing that declares it "immoral" is religion. — SES, Thu Nov 30 12:42pm

There is absolutely nothing intrinsically immoral about casual sex. It's only if you feel chained to religion that you could possibly make such a claim. If I'm single, and I meet a single woman in a... more
The millions of deaths from STD/AIDS makes it immoral. (nm) — jb, Thu Nov 30 12:59pm

Like I said... — SES, Thu Nov 30 1:02pm

...WITHOUT ADDING ANYTHING TO THAT SCENARIO - a scenario in which neither of us DOES contract an STD - there is nothing intrinsically immoral in that scenario.
but millions die of STD/AIDS, not to mention divorces, alco — jb, Thu Nov 30 1:05pm

holism, etc. you won't look at the whole picture. you just look at the pleasure and your safety which could end someday.
I'm talking INTRINSICALLY. — SES, Thu Nov 30 1:36pm

INTRINSICALLY, there is NOTHING wrong or immoral about casual sex. Just as there is nothing INTRINSICALLY immoral with drinking alcohol. Or watching porn. If casual sex involves infidelity, or... more
STILL people USING people for sex which is immoral and — jb, Thu Nov 30 1:51pm

retards Spiritual Growth.
Why would I feel used? — SES, Thu Nov 30 1:59pm

If I met a woman, and we found each other attractive, and we had casual sex, and afterwards we both felt AWESOME about it and smiled every time we thought about it, why would either of us feel... more
Doesn't matter what you feel, it's the reality and some husb — jb, Thu Nov 30 2:05pm

and might use his wife for sex and that is immoral.
Because it is 2 people using 2 people for sexual reasons & — jb, Thu Nov 30 10:31am

using people is immoral. Because it's consensual use does not make it moral. I read that in an NDE where the experiencer learned in his Life Review that it was wrong.
Where did Jesus advocate that? (nm) — jb, Wed Nov 29 11:14am

Really? I need to educate you on the bible yet again? — SES, Wed Nov 29 11:38am

Matthew 13:24-43) “Just as weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire so will it happen at the end of this world. The Son of Man will send out his angels and they will uproot from the kingdom... more
NONE of that is literal. Hell is not a fire. you need 2 read — jb, Wed Nov 29 12:55pm

NDE and find out what Hell is. Read atheist NDE for examples.
So now you know more than jesus. lol — SES, Wed Nov 29 1:00pm

jesus: “Just as weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire so will it happen at the end of this world." That SPECIFICALLY SAYS that it IS literal. " Just as weeds are gathered up and burned in the... more
i read many Hellish NDE and they didn't go into fire. GOOGLE — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:04pm

atheist nde and read them.
So you're saying that jesus was wrong, or lied? — SES, Wed Nov 29 1:08pm

Maybe it's just that NDEs are wrong. I can't believe you think you know more about hell than jesus. lol
Jesus could NOT explain HELL to people 2000 years ago. I can — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:18pm

not explain it except to give examples The Hells of the Intellect, Hatred, Drugs, Sacrileges, etc.
If the scriptures are correct, jesus said, SPECIFICALLY... — SES, Wed Nov 29 1:25pm

...that hell was the EXACT SAME THING as the fire that weeds are BURNED IN!!! So, you have to state whether: 1. The bible is wrong; or 2. jesus was wrong; or 3. jesus lied. Which is it? jesus: "Just... more
it IS a SIMILE, which are not exact NECESSARILY. u don'tknow — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:34pm

that? Read Jesus parables, none are literal. Jesus, this man has spent his life misunderstanding Scriptures and he accuses me of not understanding a simile?
The words "Just as..." indicate that it ISN'T a "simile". — SES, Wed Nov 29 2:01pm

Matthew 25:46) “And these will go away into eternal punishment , but the righteous into eternal life.” That isn't anything other than a literal statement about ETERNAL PUNISHMENT for finite sins.... more
So, you think you will burn in Hell forever? (nm) — jb, Wed Nov 29 2:07pm

I think that when I die... — SES, Thu Nov 30 5:45am

...my "consciousness" will cease to exist. Like a lightbulb being switched off. My body will be embalmed. It will be placed in a casket. It will be displayed in a Funeral home, where family and... more
That's why you need to understand NDE and the continuation — jb, Thu Nov 30 6:55am

of consciousness in the Soul as does everyone. Otherwise based on your posts you will probably be in Hell till you repent then you will have to study the Bible you have insulted or Baha'i Writings... more
Just because you fear death and need some kind of... — SES, Thu Nov 30 8:39am

...assurance that you'll survive death and live for all eternity in a better place doesn't make it true. You know what I hope happens when we die? We are brought before god. And he'll say "Did you... more
He gave BOTH of us volumes of evidence but you don't believe — jb, Thu Nov 30 10:38am

so why not believe because of the evidence? Remember it is your DUTY to seek the evidence not God's duty to provide it to you and you have the Bible which has ample evidence to convince a Billion... more
u r WASTING your LIFE finding reasons NOT 2 believe — jb, Wed Nov 29 6:10am

instead of trying to UNDERSTAND the Holy Books as most people do.
If most people jumped off a bridge, would you? — SES, Wed Nov 29 6:20am

Try thinking for yourself, instead of being one of a billion lemmings.
i DO think for myself but you look for 2 bit philosophers to — jb, Wed Nov 29 6:40am

help you "disprove" Christianity. There aren't a billion Baha'is yet.
Bertrand Russell? A "2-bit Philosopher"? — SES, Wed Nov 29 7:15am

And yet YOU listen to a misogynistic charlatan who mumbled some moronic nonsense about maninfestations, for which there is zero evidence. Pathetically amusing. Bertrand Arthur William Russell , 3rd... more
He doesn't know any better. He simply dismisses those with — shadow, Wed Nov 29 9:56am

whom he thinks he disagrees. I'm quite sure he's never read the book you're reading; I have and, though I disagree with his premises and, therefore, his conclusion, I don't make the mistake of... more
It intrigues me that in a 1927 lecture, Russell dealt with.. — SES, Wed Nov 29 10:44am

...the argument from design, and the "First Cause" argument. I assumed those arguments had come about much later than 1927. I'm going to look through "The god Delusion" and "god is not Great" when I... more
The first cause is Spiritual (nm) — jb, Thu Nov 30 12:10pm

The concept goes back to Plato, Aristotle and Aquinas, all — shadow, Thu Nov 30 8:48am

with varying understandings, "first cause", "primary mover", etc. And today there are theoretical physicists whose concept isn't all that different, that the 'first cause' is intellectual, the... more
It's so absurd, I wouldn't think it could stick around. — SES, Thu Nov 30 1:43pm

The "First Cause" argument basically comes down to "I have to have an answer, so I'm just gonna say that god was the first cause". That seems to absurd to me, that I'm surprised it's an idea that's... more
he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND God. It's that simple, he led to Hell! (nm) — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:01pm

You are utterly ignorant of who he was. So stfu. (nm) — SES, Wed Nov 29 1:15pm

I understand he was a great atheist philosopher who led peop — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:20pm

le to Hell and you want to follow him there.
You also laughingly called him a "2-bit philosopher". — SES, Wed Nov 29 1:26pm

There are few topics of which you aren't utterly ignorant.
philosopherS, i did NOT have him specifically in mind but he — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:30pm

was way wrong on the issues that most matter and that is crucial. you are ignorant of NDE/FDE/SDE/DBV/ADC/TL/SAVANTS and those are crucial to understanding the MIND.
How much of his writings have you read? (nm) — SES, Wed Nov 29 2:02pm

none, i read some theology but not philosophy (nm) — jb, Wed Nov 29 2:14pm

Yet another topic of which you are utterly ignorant. — SES, Thu Nov 30 5:46am

How dare you call ANYONE a "2-bit philosopher" when you have not only not read anything they've written, but have never even read anything about philosophy AT ALL. You are such an arrogant ass.
i HAVE read some of their ideas which is one reason we NEED — jb, Thu Nov 30 7:06am

to discuss Death Experiences to understand the Soul exists. But, while there has been a little discussion of NDE FDE/SDE/DBV/ADC have been ignored because there is no way to explain them.
Here's one big difference between me and you, Bauer. — SES, Thu Nov 30 8:45am

If, for example, someone tells me that the Hindus have an excellent explanation for our existence and what happens when we die... ...I admit that I know next to nothing about the Hindu belief system, ... more
NO, because i KNOW God exists so i know he is wrong, always — jb, Thu Nov 30 10:43am

have but you, on the other hand, do NOT INVESTIGATE the NDE/FDE/SDE/DBV/ADC/savants which I have posted about and ultimately prove we have souls and God exists. So, you are the arrogant one.
So? Same for me, but I react completely differently. — SES, Thu Nov 30 10:56am

I know god DOESN'T exist. Yet I don't immediately insult someone, whose belief system I am unaware of, who asserts their belief in a god or gods. Even though I know that god DOESN'T exist, if someone ... more
Neither one of you KNOW. — Poppet, Thu Nov 30 11:51am

Fulfilling knowledge conditions regarding the truth-state of existential propositions like that is an exceptionally difficult thing to do. For this particular existential question, it's probably... more
I do not feel required to believe the possible existence... — SES, Thu Nov 30 12:22pm

...of every possible thing. I also don't feel required to qualify my opinion by saying "I don't believe that [whatever] exists". I have the strength of my convictions to declare "That does NOT... more
It's not "wishy-washy," it's precise. — Poppet, Thu Nov 30 12:40pm

I don't generally bother with such qualifiers, either (although I still tend to use "believe" rather than "know"). In most contexts, that's unnecessary. However, when the subject under discussion is... more
Matt Dillahunty talks about the "Dragon in the Garage". — SES, Thu Nov 30 1:00pm

Your friend tells you he has a huge dragon in his garage. You say "Show me." He opens the garage door. There's nothing there. "I don't see a dragon." "He's invisible." You walk all around the garage, ... more
*shrug* — Poppet, Thu Nov 30 1:32pm

To state one "knows" whether or not God exists is simply false...regardless of which way you believe. You may be comfortable with completely misusing a word...and so is bauer. Just sayin'...
CONSIDER ALL the evidence i post and total inability of any1 — jb, Thu Nov 30 1:55pm

to refute those evidences. NOBODY can argue with my proofs so I do not misuse the words at all. But, I know you will not take them back.
To each his or her own. — SES, Thu Nov 30 1:39pm

*shrug* To state one "knows" whether or not Unicorns exist is simply false...regardless of which way you believe. You may be comfortable with completely misusing a word... Just sayin'.... To state... more
You be you, Bauer. — Poppet, Thu Nov 30 2:32pm

Er...SES.
you be WRONG and best repent now before it;s too late. — jb, Thu Nov 30 1:58pm

LIS/you have not considered the proves I post.
you didn't look at my proofs which i posted and if you reque — jb, Thu Nov 30 1:09pm

st will post more.
BUT, God is PROVEN by Commonalities of Holy Books, Spiritual — jb, Thu Nov 30 12:56pm

Qualities like Spiritual Birth, Fruits, Understanding, Love, Grief; NDE/FDE/SDE/DBV/ADC/TL which indirectly prove God, history of Religions, biography of Bab and Baha'u'llah and their Writings and... more
So, you want to know my evidence God exists? i tell you but — jb, Thu Nov 30 11:21am

you reject them w/o any evidence and you don't ask questions. There can be no evidence God DOESN'T EXIST. I TOLD you for example @NDE/DBV/TL but you reject them w/o any reasoning as everybody here... more
Notice that what I said was that my reaction would be... — SES, Thu Nov 30 12:14pm

...for me to say "OK. Interesting. Show me your evidence." If, after they show me their evidence, I think their evidence SUCKS (like I think YOURS does), THEN I feel free to dismiss their claims. YOU ... more
you HAVEN'T read my evidence as God requires you to do. (nm) — jb, Thu Nov 30 1:02pm

I don't give a goddamn what you think your god requires. — SES, Thu Nov 30 1:40pm

I've looked at your evidence. It's bullsh*t.
What Commonalities did i list? name ten. — jb, Thu Nov 30 2:02pm

you can't. you idea what the proofs are.
Surely you realize what you're dealing with by now? — Poppet, Wed Nov 29 9:36am

That he could actually type that particular idiocy points up how utterly ignorant of philosophy jb is. Of course, that was already evident in his pathetic attempts to disparage the field and... more
If your ideas had merit vis NDE ETC nobody would be studying — jb, Wed Nov 29 1:13pm

them. But, we are because THEY ARE REAL and philosophy MOSTLY begins with ideas and ends with ideas. But you are ignorant of REALITY of NDE/FDE/SDE/DBV/ADC but you will learn someday what we already... more

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