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DFM
My sources disagree.
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35pm
2602:30a:2c0c:99d0:3db2:e55c:24a6:64e7

The principal reason for your delusion is the warped crime record-keeping for reasons of "Political Correctness". In short, your rose colored glasses are lying to you once again. Illegal aliens are far MORE likely to commit crimes than native-born.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/26/illegals-commit-crimes-double-rate-native-born-stu/

Illegals commit crimes at double the rate of native-born

And the crimes they were convicted of were, on the whole, more serious, said John R. Lott Jr., the report’s author and president of the research center.

His findings also challenge the general narrative that immigrants commit fewer crimes. Those past studies usually don’t look at legal versus illegal populations, Mr. Lott said.

Mr. Lott said the Arizona data is able to peek behind that curtain, and the differences between the populations were stark.

https://cis.org/Examination-US-Immigration-Policy-and-Serious-Crime

Immigrant Crime as an Underestimated Problem:
Evidence and Practical Considerations

The Meta-Issue: The Veil of Secrecy

Immigration enthusiasts might be prone to use such research as evidence that widespread fear of immigrant crime is an irrational, if understandable, response to sensationalized anecdotes.14 But such a view may be hasty in its own right. Many immigrant crimes are not reported, and possibly in greater proportion than the crimes that the U.S.-born commit. Many victims of immigrant criminals fear reporting crimes to the police because their victimizers are of the same nationality, and thus are more likely to retaliate in ways that would dissuade the victim from calling police.

This is especially true with immigrant crime rings. As illegal economic activity, organized crime requires an unusually high level of trust to maintain a veil of secrecy from police and mob rivals alike. A common language and experience, apart from the larger American one, can link such people. "Criminals," writes immigration critic Peter Brimelow, "prefer to deal with co-conspirators they understand and trust in economist-speak, it reduces their transaction costs. And such tightly-knit groups, operating in a foreign and sometimes obscure language, are notoriously difficult for the police to penetrate."15 This is why for many decades newcomer ethnic groups from all parts of the world, in varying types and locations, each have set up their own versions of the Mafia. These organizations could be seen, at least initially, as ethnic protection societies, providing members with jobs, housing, and other necessities. But their dominance in exerting informal social and economic control over immigrants enabled leaders to successfully coerce business rivals and community members.

A special report released in 1990, based on the Justice Department's National Crime Victimization Survey, which annually samples about 100,000 persons aged 12 and over in roughly 50,000 U.S. households, suggests underreporting among Hispanics, the nation's largest ethnic grouping, occurs often and more so than among non-Hispanics. While it is true "Hispanics" is a far from perfect proxy for "immigrants," not the least of the reasons being that many Hispanics are native-born, the data show significant differences. During the period 1979-86 Hispanics failed to report crimes of all types at a rate nearly twice the rate that they did report; even for violent crimes alone the unreported offenses outnumbered the reported ones. The violent crime victimization rate for Hispanics also exceeded that for non-Hispanics, 39.6 versus 35.3 offenses per 1,000 households, with household crime (burglary, larceny, vehicle theft) showing the greatest discrepancy, 265.6 versus 204.5 crimes per 1,000 households.16

Police confirm the tendency to underreport. In Memphis, Police Sgt. L. A. Currin estimates that because Hispanic immigrants are reluctant to come forward, hundreds of robberies each year go unreported. "They don't think they have certain rights," said Currin. "We are not Immigration [and Naturalization Service]. Our concern is whether a crime was committed."17 Often, robbers, believing immigrants are in the U.S. illegally, assume they don't have bank accounts and thus carry around a lot of cash. Thus, it is not simply group cultural norms, but also fear of government reprisal, that drives underreporting. Though an increasing number of urban police departments, including Memphis's, have begun outreach services to Hispanic, Asian, and other immigrant communities and have hired more bilingual officers, this fear remains alive and well.

"A Family Matter"

An especially ominous reason for underreporting is that what most Americans would call crime many immigrants consider to be tradition, or if a crime, a "family matter" not requiring outside interference. In this view, police are not supposed to supplant patriarchal authority in resolving disputes, however evident that the "conflict" in question is a case of prey needing protection from predator. Sometimes this can have tragic consequences. In Washington, D.C., for example, a Vietnamese family failed to report to authorities the repeated sexual molestation of their child by another adult member of their community. The family only complained after the predator murdered the child. When police, through an interpreter, asked the parents why they did not report the sexual abuse, they replied it is customary in their culture not to call upon strangers to settle delicate family problems.18 A young woman from Singapore recalled at a 1999 conference on domestic violence in Boston that back in her native country no one not family members or neighbors ever questioned her parents' and uncle's use of beatings and rape as a way to discipline her, an aunt, and a grandfather: "We rallied not for the victim but for the batterer. We'd say, Yeah, hit her because she was disobedient." That comment came in the context of a report by the Massachusetts Governor's Commission on Domestic Violence that found the state's outreach efforts on domestic violence hadn't reached refugees and immigrants, who have a greater incidence of family violence.19

In a bitterly ironic note, a Nigerian woman who investigated child abuse complaints for the City of New York was arrested in 1999 along with her husband and charged with forcing a Nigerian girl into servitude for nine years. Federal investigators also noted the couple and several relatives had forced two other Nigerian girls into servitude. In the first instance, the couple had lured a 14-year-old girl into coming to the U.S. to attend trade school and become a seamstress. Shortly thereafter, they terrorized her into working as a maid and a babysitter in their house. The couple seized the girl's passport, forbade her to speak to anyone outside the family, barred her from using the phone, threatened to deport her and harm her family, and beat her when she disobeyed orders. At age 22, while being beaten for requesting her freedom, neighbors overheard her screams and called the police; an anonymous tip led the FBI into the picture later on. The couple at their arraignment in federal court denied mistreating the girl.20

Cases such as these are far more common than imagined. Each year, according to a 1999 report by the Central Intelligence Agency, between 45,000 and 50,000 women and children are trafficked as slaves into the United States from Asia, Europe, Latin America, India, and Africa.21 One might ask: Why don't immigrant victims report these crimes? How could they tolerate serving as slaves all but in name? Aside from the extensively diagnosed general tendency of victims to blame themselves for violence inflicted upon them,22 immigrants in particular often have a difficult time shaking the perception that local police are connected to immigration authorities. A young Mexican woman named Maria, for example, moved to the Dallas area in 1992 and the next year met the man who would become her husband. He routinely abused her, but she was reluctant to call police because she feared deportation; the husband was a legal U.S. resident, and Maria was not. The final straw was when her husband used electrical cables to shock her, then locked her and their daughter in his workshop. She broke through the back door, took her daughter and fled to a women's shelter.23 Another Mexican woman in El Paso, whose first name was Laura, was beaten repeatedly for four years by her husband until her arms and legs were black and blue. At one point, her husband pointed a gun at her and told her if she ever left him, he'd keep their young twins, and have her deported. Finally, she came to a shelter. As with the case of Maria, Laura did not have permanent legal resident status, but her husband did.24 "Many of these women had poor experiences with the police in their own countries," noted a Dallas police sergeant with the domestic crimes unit. "They equate us with the INS. That I don't like. We're not Immigration, and their [immigration] status is of no relevance to whether we will help them."25 The fear women in situations like these feel is made worse given their lack of money when they leave (more accurately, flee) their husbands; without money, an attorney may be the furthest thing from their minds.

The Mexican Commute: Yet another reason for underreporting lies in the fact that criminals from other countries, almost inevitably Mexico, cross over the border to commit crime and then return home to escape prosecution. Police officials in the San Diego area have complained that organized groups from Mexico cross over from Tijuana and commit robberies in middle-income neighborhoods. Indeed, criminal activity along the U.S.-Mexican border in San Diego County led local officials in the 1980s to conduct a study of arrest rates according to legal status. In the City of San Diego 26 percent of all burglary arrests and 12 percent of all felony arrests involved illegal aliens, who are estimated to comprise less than 4 percent of the total city population.36

Incomplete Record-Keeping: Immigrant crime also may be underestimated because local law enforcement officials do not keep records on the national origin of the perpetrator. In Dana Point, an affluent Orange County, Calif., coastal community experiencing a wave of immigrant-related crime, a sheriff's officer noted that in a recent year that suburb had three murders, three rapes, 232 vehicle burglaries, 181 residential burglaries, and 108 commercial burglaries. Asked whether he had an ethnic breakdown on these numbers, he replied, "We won't touch that."37 That kind of local policy, especially in larger cities, explains why data based on the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports can explain only so much. While UCR Index is consistent across U.S. cities, and takes account of the most serious offenses, it doesn't measure drug dealing, simple assaults, fraud, vandalism, and weapons violations, among other crimes. Nor given the reluctance of localities to break down crimes by race and ethnicity, does it collect data on that basis either. Butcher and Piehl admit, "Using the UCR may cause us to overlook some important types of crime."

DFM

  • ...than native born. For those interested in the facts surrounding this issue, the article below links to several studies to support this conclusion.... more
    • My sources disagree. — DFM, Tue Feb 13 10:35pm
      • Your Source...Amadeus, Wed Feb 14 11:44am
        https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/crime-prevention-research-center/ http://crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/mythsofmurder.htm... more
        • like NOT finding out if suspects are illegal aliens or not, those statistics are suspect. DFM
          • Who Told You...Amadeus, Wed Feb 14 5:22pm
            ...that the statistics were compiled with political bias? Who told you they didn't differentiate? Was it Lott? Was it publications by his group? Again, you have lots of experts in the subject, and... more
    • Illegal Immigration might only be a misdemeanor or infraction, but it's still a crime. Maybe they are less likely to commit violent crimes: The council analyzed data from the Census’ 2010 American... more
      • Actually...Amadeus, Tue Feb 13 9:26pm
        Those who overstay visas aren't even misdemeanor offenders. Their infractions have civil penalties, not criminal penalties. The point I was making was that illegal immigrants are not more likely to... more
          • I Don't Know Why You're Sorry, But...Amadeus, Wed Feb 14 8:05am
            ...that wasn't a claim I made, nor the point I was making. I'll clarify it for you. Once an illegal immigrant is here, they are less likely to commit further crimes than those who are native born.... more
            • overall if they were not here ILLEGALLY. Kate Steinle would still be alive. Two Deputies in California would still be alive. Thousands of others would still be alive. Thousands of addicts would not... more
            • that engaging in an act that violates the law is ILLEGAL regardless of the type of penalties... Certainly the study that you chose says that they commit fewer crimes after their initial legal... more
              • Apparently? What Other Studies?Amadeus, Wed Feb 14 9:04am
                It is sorry that you don't grasp the very simple concept that engaging in an act that violates the law is ILLEGAL regardless of the type of penalties... That's simply inaccurate. Of course, I... more
                • So, in your perspective...Sprout, Wed Feb 14 9:21am
                  How does someone who CANNOT work in the country LEGALLY engage in work to make a living without violating a law? At least TRY to think on it.
                  • I Suspect...Amadeus, Wed Feb 14 9:53am
                    ...that there are a number of arrangements they make, once they are here. I-9 falsification is a crime, so those who do that to get a job are committing a second crime. However, there is a loophole... more
                    • LOL.... "arrangements"...Sprout, Wed Feb 14 11:12am
                      Even if they work as an independent contractor and do not have to fill out that form it does not make their WORK anything other than ILLEGAL. Yes they bypass a REPORTING requirement, but that doesn't ... more
                      • Oh Look, You Failed To Answer My Questions...Amadeus, Wed Feb 14 11:29am
                        It's hard to have a conversation without a partner who participates in good faith. You know, you might be able to make a case that if an illegal immigrant gets a Coke out of a vending machine, they... more
                        • Ah.... so you decide that once theySprout, Wed Feb 14 2:14pm
                          enter illegally, then every other offense related in some way to their initial offense should not be considered a crime..... Interesting... Not particularly surprising that if you use THAT math that... more
                          • Still No Response?Amadeus, Wed Feb 14 5:23pm
                            You used to be better than that, Sprout. Amadeus
                            • LOL.... Sprout, Thu Feb 15 4:41am
                              Questions so easy... Is enforcing the law beneficial to the safety and security of the community? YES... Look at what has happened in NY when they decided to ignore such 'minor' offenses... Teaching... more
                              • A Reminder...Amadeus, Thu Feb 15 8:51am
                                Is the forging of an I-9 form (or other similar means of obtaining employment by violating immigration law) something that decreases the safety of a community? Is it reasonable to assume that as we... more
                                • How many times do I have to say it...Sprout, Thu Feb 15 11:59am
                                  You want us to pretend that engaging in such so called 'victimless' crimes in no way results in an overall disregarding of the law. Yes, it is reasonable to assume that they have violated immigration ... more
        • Who cares? What's your point? They shouldn't be here.Mondo Fuego™, Wed Feb 14 2:02am
          What about that don't you understand?
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