Marianne Luban
Nib is Pip
Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:23
67.2.98.36


Marianne:

"If the king who had just died as mentioned in the annals of Mursili could not have been Tutankhamun on a linguistic basis, a long line of language experts would never have assumed Dahamunza was Ankhesenamun."

Tory:
"Only takes one to get it right, whereas a 1,000 standing in line can be standing in the wrong line. I've already said enough times now that Helck is not alone in believing the Hittite spelling Ni-ip-ḫu-ru-ri-ia-aš is equivalent to Neferkheperure: ‘(m)an muß sich vor Augen halten, daß nap einem naf/nef- = nfr entspricht und nib/p einem niw/new- von nb. Der hörbare Unterschied zwischen Nfr-hprw-R' und Nb-hprw-R' war minimal – im Gegensatz zur deutlichen Verschiedenheit in der Schreibung’ (W. Helck, Ägyptologische Bemerkungen zu dem Artikel von J. Freu in “Hethitica XI 39”, Hethi-
tica 12 [1994], p. 19).

Yes I know, I know, Helck is wrong because you say so. I don't agree with Helck that "nfr" can be nib/p but if there is not enough evidence to say that he must absolutely be wrong then there is also not enough evidence to say anx-xprw-ra cannot become Pi-ip-ḫu-ru-ri-ia-aš and Ni-ip-ḫu-ru-ri-ia-aš as argued by Wilhem & Boese."

Helck is saying that the audible difference between "nfr" and "nb" is "minimal". That's his very subjective opinion and, YES, I certainly believe he couldn't be more WRONG. Nobody could hear the difference between "nafe" and "neeb"?? According to Helck everybody must have pretty hard of hearing. This is getting crazy. Try this: start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can. I guarantee it'll soon turn into "Pip".

  • Neb is never Pip, everTory, Mon Dec 19 04:49
    No one on EEF will say Egyptian "nb" becomes Pip or Bip in Akkadian transliteration. And no one will say there are examples of this because there are zero examples. Ask anyway--unless you're afraid... more
    • Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO?Marianne Luban, Mon Dec 19 20:36
      Not anybody who knows anything about linguistics. "n" can be interchangeable with "b" and "p"--easily. What about that king in Manetho's Dynasty II. He is called "Binothris"--but it's actually... more
      • Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO?Marianne Luban, Mon Dec 19 20:48
        Shangrila is a modern reference to Shambhala, a mythical kingdom in Tibetan Buddhist tradition, which was sought by Eastern and Western explorers and inspired a novel by a man named Hilton. Names are ... more
        • Re: Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO?Tory, Mon Dec 19 21:00
          Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO? Says every single foreign ruler who ever addressed a letter to Amenhotep III. That's who. Shangrila is a modern reference to Shambhala, a mythical kingdom in Tibetan ... more
          • Re: Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO?Marianne Luban, Tue Dec 20 10:11
            Marianne Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO? Tory: "Says every single foreign ruler who ever addressed a letter to Amenhotep III. That's who." Are you trying to say that "Piphurrias" is a reference to... more
            • Re: Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO?Tory, Tue Dec 20 11:14
              Are you trying to say that "Piphurrias" is a reference to Amenhotep III? I believe I was crystal clear. None of the examples we have for "Nb" in the throne name of Amenhotep III ever become Pip in... more
              • Re: Neb is never Pip, ever--SAYS WHO?Marianne Luban, Tue Dec 20 12:21
                Marianne: "Are you trying to say that "Piphurrias" is a reference to Amenhotep III?" Tory: "I believe I was crystal clear. None of the examples we have for "Nb" in the throne name of Amenhotep III... more
    • Nib is Pip — Marianne Luban, Mon Dec 19 10:23
      • Nib is PipIan Onvlee, Mon Dec 19 15:55
        Marianne, Try this: start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can. I guarantee it'll soon turn into "Pip". Hahaha. True. There goes every linguistic theory out the window. But its just a... more
      • Re: Nib is PipTory, Mon Dec 19 11:09
        Try this: start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can. I guarantee it'll soon turn into "Pip". It's like I said, "nb" only becomes Pip in your imagination not in any attested Akkadian... more
        • Re: Re: Nib is PipKim Sargerson, Tue Dec 20 11:53
          Hi all I actually tried Marianne's suggestion of "start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can." Several times. I never got "Pip". However, perhaps as interestingly, I got (a) saying it... more
          • Re: Re: Nib is PipTory, Wed Dec 21 05:51
            I actually tried Marianne's suggestion of "start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can." Several times. I never got "Pip". I never did either. But give /m/ or "Im" a go. I find it... more
            • Re: Re: Nib is PipIan Onvlee, Wed Dec 21 08:01
              Hi guys, I actually tried Marianne's suggestion of "start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can." Several times. I never got "Pip". I never did either. But give /m/ or "Im" a go. I find ... more
              • Re: Nib is PipMarianne Luban, Wed Dec 21 16:17
                Ian: "You guys are crazy" If I were a man who thought everything in ancient Egypt had to be regulated by the moon, including when people began their reigns--I wouldn't cast stones. The point is--if... more
                • Re: Nib is PipIan Onvlee, Sun Dec 25 14:08
                  Hi Marianne, Yes, for the ancient Egyptians and even Greeks and Jews, following lunations was of the utmost daily and monthly and yearly religious importance for a correct spiritual connection with... more
        • Re: Nib is PipMarianne Luban, Mon Dec 19 13:49
          Marianne: "Try this: start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can. I guarantee it'll soon turn into "Pip"." Tory: "It's like I said, "nb" only becomes Pip in your imagination not in any... more
          • Re: Pip is not NbTory, Mon Dec 19 20:45
            Try this: start saying "Nib" over and over again as fast as you can. I guarantee it'll soon turn into "Pip". It's like I said, "nb" only becomes Pip in your imagination not in any attested Akkadian... more
            • Re: Pip is not NbMarc Gabolde, Fri Jun 1 08:35
              Hi Tory, Just few words for the discussion about Pip/Nip/Nib/Nap which I posted today in another discussion on ANECF concerning the king Nephersôphris known from the Suidas Byzantine Encyclopaedia.... more
              • Re: Pip is not NbTory Thorpe, Fri Jun 1 10:34
                Hi Marc You wrote: For cuneiform Nip- as indisputable and viable alternative way to transcribe Egyptian nfr... You will not find me in disagreement with this in any of my remarks on this or other... more
                • Niphururiria againMarc Gabolde, Fri Jun 1 16:54
                  Dear Tory, Jared MILLER, Hittitologist, in his « Amarna Age Chronology and the Identity of Nibḫururiya in the Light of a Newly Reconstructed Hittite Text », Altorientalische Forschungen 34... more
                  • Re: Niphururiria againTory Thorpe, Fri Jun 1 17:04
                    Dear Marc I would still want to see the Akkadian text of EA 9. NIP and NIB are not written exactly the same way in Akkadian cuneiform. That is not true. Miller is probably making small errors here.... more
                    • EA 9, 1Marc Gabolde, Sat Jun 2 06:16
                      Dear Tory, I must add that the index of Bezold & Budge, p. 154, gives : Ni-ip-ḫu-ur-ri-ri-ya for the royal name on tablet Bezold & Budge n° 2, 1 (EA 9, 1). Regards
                    • EA 9Marc Gabolde, Sat Jun 2 06:00
                      Hi Tory, Two links that may help: Photos of EA 9 (BM 29785) at :... more
                • NiphururiiaMarc Gabolde, Fri Jun 1 11:44
                  Dear Tory, Only few books available on my desk, however, concerning EA 9,1 : Moran gives NiBḫurrereya, but Knudtzon I, p. 88, gives ni-ip-ḫu-ur-ri-ri-ia, R.S. Hess, Amarna Personal Names, ... more
                  • Re: NiphururiiaTory Thorpe, Fri Jun 1 16:39
                    Dear Marc Well it cannot be both NIB and NIP in EA 9, so I would very much like to know who is telling the truth. I would know who if I had access to the cuneiform text. Maybe someone does and can... more
          • Re: Nib is PipIan Onvlee, Mon Dec 19 16:10
            Marianne says: Look, these are writing mistakes on the part of foreigners--but there is no one that could possibly match except nb-xprw-re Tutankhamun. But Marianne, by the same token you deny any... more
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