Joe Baker
Re: Every year is accounted for
Thu Dec 22, 2011 04:26
218.215.202.145

Hi Tory

When I gave the following example of your gaps - “12 year reign for Neferneferuaten (highest attested date year 3), 9 year reign for Smenkhkare (highest attested date year 1 and his only evidence is a few seals and bezel rings, one unfinished tomb drawing from Akhetetan and one building relief from Memphis)”. Your reply in post 12377 was

Oh wait, you mean like Amenhotep I for 21 years but his highest known "year-date" is still just Year 10? The 21 years he was served by an astronomer is not a year-date

Firstly you forget the year 20 graffito from Saqqara (See Hornung in “Ancient Egyptian Chronology”, page 199). Secondly, unlike other periods, the late Amenhotep 3 and Amarna period is very well attested due to the discovery of short lived complexes that contain large quantities of dated material, such as those found during the excavation of the Malqatta palace at Thebes and the many buildings at Amarna. For those at Malqatta see my post 4924 and for those at Amarna see my post 8122.

Also for the last dates at Akhetaten see Rolf Krauss, “Eine Regentin, ein König und eine Königin zwischen dem Tod von Achenaten und der Thronbesteigung von Tutanchaten”, Altoriental. Forsch. 34 (2007) 2, 294–318. He thinks, on the basis of oil and wine jars from the pergola built by Ankhkheperure (for him, a male), that the last residency date at Akhetaten is from year 3 of Ankhkheperure.

I would also be interested in the year 2 and year 10 dockets of the hry-b3ḥ official as Krauss does not mention them. He lists only the hry-b3ḥ official for years 13 -17 of Akhenaten and then for year 1 of Smenkhkare, with the title reverting back to ḥry-k3mw with year 1 and 2 of Ankhkheperure. So if this were the case your empty gap between years 3-9 Ankhkheperure is untenable. Your suggestion that Smenkhkare may had gone to Memphis is weak as no Memphite tomb of his presumed officials are found there. Besides you already have Horemheb pseudo-reigning from there while Neferneferuaten still staying in Akhetaten and presumably having wine sealed with your (unattested) reign dates.

Regards Joe


  • Every year is accounted forTory, Sun Dec 18 10:38
    Bold Red are dated hieratic dockets on wine-jars found at Akhetaten with the title of the wine overseer. 1360 15 hry-k3mw 1359 16 hry-k3mw 1358 17 hry-k3mw 1357 18 hry-k3mw 1356 19 hry-k3mw 1355 20... more
    • Re: Every year is accounted for — Joe Baker, Thu Dec 22 04:26
      • Re: Every year is accounted forTory, Thu Dec 22 11:46
        Hi Joe He [Krauss] lists only the hry-b3ḥ official for years 13-17 of Akhenaten Amarna wine-jars per Petrie, Helck, Cerny and Fairman: ḥry-k3mw in Years 15, 16, 1, [2?], 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, ... more
        • Re: Every year is accounted forIan Onvlee, Fri Dec 23 16:09
          Hi Tory, Just analizing. If I forget for a moment the single Year 1 of Smenkhkare, which is difficult to place with any certainty anyway, I come accross the following lunar based chronology: 1376/5... more
          • Re: Every year is accounted for (correction)Ian Onvlee, Fri Dec 23 16:48
            I saw that year 17 ended up at the end of year 16, which is irritating, so I correct this here: Era Horemheb hry-k3mw hry-b'h Date BC Equation 1376 BC = 1 Akhetaten = 1 Akenkheres I (12 years) 1 1 ?... more
    • Every year is accounted forIan Onvlee, Mon Dec 19 04:11
      Tory, Bold Red are dated hieratic dockets on wine-jars found at Akhetaten with the title of the wine overseer. Would you mind changing the bold red into blue or something. I don't see a difference... more
      • Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Tory, Mon Dec 19 09:23
        Bold Red are dated hieratic dockets on wine-jars found at Akhetaten with the title of the wine overseer. 1360 15 hry-k3mw 1359 16 hry-k3mw 1358 17 hry-k3mw 1357 18 hry-k3mw 1356 19 hry-k3mw 1355 20... more
        • Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Ian Onvlee, Mon Dec 19 15:24
          Hi Tory, Thanks for the interesting list and chronology. But could you perhaps be more clear about the dates. I mean. Are these all stray dates, such as the years 28 and 30 probably are, or are the... more
          • Re: Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Tory, Mon Dec 19 20:14
            Hi Ian Perhaps your browser is the problem. It works fine with safari and firefox. Send me an email with a screen shot so I can see what you are seeing on your monitor. Also, if bold red doesn't... more
            • Re: Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Ian Onvlee, Mon Dec 19 21:34
              Hi Tory, with 'doesn't work' I meant, I do see these items in red, but don't see any difference between "bold" red and normal red. It is perhaps the color red that makes it difficult to distinguish... more
              • Re: Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Tory, Mon Dec 19 21:47
                Ok so ignore bold and just focus on the red. Everything in red is a wine-jar found in the city of Akhetaten with a year-date and the official title of the wine overseer at the time of the date. These ... more
                • Re: Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Ian Onvlee, Mon Dec 19 22:06
                  Hi Tory, Ah, ok. Thanks. But if they are all anonymous, how did you distinguish one from the other with the same overseer title, and how did you decide when the title changed and when it changed back ... more
                  • Re: Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Tory, Mon Dec 19 22:20
                    I would suggest you read J. Cerny's article in JEA 50 (1964). The wine overseer is an official attached to the royal court. These jars are his responsibility. Jars with the same year-date, same title ... more
                    • Re: Every Year Accounted For (attempt 2)Ian Onvlee, Sun Dec 25 15:33
                      Tory, Thanks for the reference. I'm afraid I won't be able to purchase it. You have pretty interesting stuff here. Regards, Ian
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