Joe Baker
Joe's 100+ year old outdated info on eponym-list A3
Sun May 13, 2012 09:35
218.215.217.226

Hi Tory

Firstly, thank you for the copies of Millard’s copies of A3 and KAV 21-24. Secondly, great illustrations you have placed on the forum superimposing your arrangement of limus onto copies of these documents.

I've already pointed out enough times now that both Ungnad and Schroeder believed Aššur-gimili-tirri was the last limmu in col. IX of KAV 21-24. It should be obvious to you by now that Ungnad's and Schroeder's view depends entirely on Aššur-gimili-tirri appearing on eponym-list A3 somewhere between Silim-Aššur (preserved on KAV 21-24 but not preserved on A3) and Ša-Nabu-šu (not preserved on KAV 21-24 but preserved on A3 col. V line 2').

Maybe you could point to the exact reference you are using because I can not find it. On the contrary, in my internet search, I find the complete opposite.

The first construction I find is in George Smith’s 1785 book, “The Assyrian Eponym Canon”, at
http://archive.org/stream/assyrianeponymca00smitiala#page/n3/mode/2up
with relevant pages being 40-41 and 69-71. His arrangement was

659 Silim-Assur
658  ?
657  ?
656 Sa-nabu-su
and for him Assur-gimil-turri was to be placed after 644

In 1902 the Rev. C.H.W. Johns in “The Chronology of Ašurbânipal’s Reign. I.”, PSBA 24 (1903) 235-241 published the first in a series of papers on the chronology arrangement of the early to mid limus of Aššur-bani-apli. His summary table is here
http://archive.org/stream/proceedings24soci#page/241/mode/1up
Subsequent papers in 1903-1907 explained his reasons for revising Smith’s assignments. His arrangement forms the basis of the modern conventional scheme and is

659 Silim-Ašur
658 Ša-Nabű-šű
with Aššur-gimillu-tere being placed sometime after 644.

When I turn to Schroeder’s 1920 explanation of Canon A3, here at the top of page VIII
http://archive.org/stream/keilschrifttexte00schr#page/n13/mode/1up
we see that he considered Aššur-gimillu-tere (which name he reads as “Ášur-bęl-la-mur?”) to be a post canonical and therefore several years after 659.

Finally Ungnad. In his 1938 article “Eponymen” in RlA, on pages 428 and 429 his summary has the following arrangement

659 Silim-Aššur
658 Ša-Nabű-šű
with Aššur-gimilli-terra sometime after 648

So I say again, for over 100 years, no one but yourself has placed Aššur-gimillu-tere (and others) between Silim-Aššur at 659 and Ša-Nabu-šu at 658. All place him (and the others) in the post canonical period. Clearly therefore no one considers him to be the last limu of column IX of KAV 21-24.

Regards Joe


  • Hi Joe You wrote: As said I have not seen a copy of A3 nor have access to Millard. Is it possible to e-mail me scans of Millard’s handcopy (along with his reconstructed reverse of Cc in Plate 7)?... more
    • Joe's 100+ year old outdated info on eponym-list A3 — Joe Baker, Sun May 13 09:35
      • Hi Joe When I turn to Schroeder’s 1920 explanation of Canon A3, here at the top of page VIII http://archive.org/stream/keilschrifttexte00schr#page/n13/mode/1up we see that he considered... more
        • Hi Tory Oops, mistakenly said A3 instead of KAV 21-24 (but that should have been obvious). (The following year in 1921 Schroeder shifted gears and proposed that KAV 21-24 col. X did not contain any... more
          • SchroederTory Thorpe, Thu May 17 01:36
            Hi Joe Almost forgot. What is the argument, is your insistence that the last limu mentioned in column IX was Aššur-gimillu-tere. The authors listed in my last post were designed to show that I can... more
            • KAV 21-24Werner Nahm, Thu May 17 06:41
              Hi Joe, Tory and all, some remarks and questions about KAV 21-24. - I do not have Millard's book, what does he say about the collation by Jakob-Rost? In particular: - Zawadzki wrote that the very... more
              • mathematical notation and KAV 21-24Tory Thorpe, Fri May 18 04:21
                Hi Werner I have an unpublished paper where I propose a mathematical notation [2]2 for 22x60=1320 at the end of a limu list on two tablets, starting with Su-Istar and a note [1 li-]mu (for 1000)... more
              • Re: KAV 21-24Tory Thorpe, Thu May 17 07:33
                Hi Werner All Millard says is that Jakob-Rost checked his arrangement of the various fragments (shown on Plate 7) and that he disagreed with Millard's placement of VAT 11260B. Like Zawadzki, Millard... more
                • Re: KAV 21-24Werner, Thu May 24 04:57
                  Hi Tory, I have a ruptured finger ligament, so please excuse the short answer. > All Millard says is that Jakob-Rost checked his arrangement of the various fragments (shown on Plate 7) and that he... more
                  • KAV 21-24, Paqaha, etc.Tory Thorpe, Sat May 26 01:52
                    Hi Werner Werner: I have a ruptured finger ligament, so please excuse the short answer. Yes of course. I hope things improve. TT: All Millard says is that Jakob-Rost checked his arrangement of the... more
          • Hi Joe I must say your construction is a good attempt. Using your method the copy of A3 you sent me does not appear to fit to conventional chronology. Still Johns say it is composed of some 10... more
    • A3 obverse (graphic)Tory, Mon May 7 02:44
      Hi Joe Perhaps a graphic of the obverse of A3 will help. This layout has the limmu names in Roman letters overlaying the cuneiform script on the water marked fragment and extending into the missing... more
      • A3 reverse (graphic)Tory, Mon May 7 02:46
        Hi Joe Perhaps a graphic of the reverse of A3 will help. This layout has the limmu names in Roman letters overlaying the cuneiform script on the water marked fragment and extending into the missing... more
        • A3 reverse (graphic) correctionTory Thorpe, Tue May 15 08:56
          http://postimage.org/image/p0bgoa1h7/
          • A3 reverse (graphic) and double eponymy?Tory Thorpe, Tue May 15 09:07
            Hi all, I could feel something was off. Another look at the fragment and I realized I put the limmus of Zeru-ibni and Tab-šar-Aššur on two separate lines when in fact A3 shows them on the same line.... more
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