Re: Joe's 100+ year old outdated info on eponym-list A3
Wed May 16, 2012 23:29
I must say your construction is a good attempt. Using your method the copy of A3 you sent me does not appear to fit to conventional chronology. Still Johns say it is composed of some 10 fragments and I see no joins in Millard’s copy. Have you taken into account if the backs of these two pieces join at some points. Or was it completely split down the middle of the interior such that they no longer join together at any point?
I guess this means you do not intend to produce a counter illustration of A3 that attempts to do the impossible and fit to the conventional chronology? A3 is not 10 fragments that join. Johns was wrong. And A3 is not your two pieces that might join or might not. It is just one fragment (K 4389). The scan I sent you are Millard's drawings of the obverse and the reverse of the one fragment.
As for the even spacing in KAV 21-24, you wrote: You are being very quite about how you achieved this equal spacing. Too shy to say you slipped in Paqaḫa to give Tukulti-apil-Ešara an extra year (or is that a duplicated year)?
I discussed the inclusion of Paqaha in KAV 21-24 in post 12778 back on March 19. Are you pretending I didn't?
The fragments of col. VIII do not join. If they did Schroeder's drawings would show this, for his drawings join together all those fragments of KAV 21-24 that actually do join. So there are no grounds for inventing a mistake in the limmu-list KAV 21-24 by creating the unheard of limmu "Adad-belu-KUR"(!). On the other hand, the šakin mati (mati = KUR) Paqaha belongs to the canonical period. I (and everyone else) assume Paqaha was a suffect limmu in the time of Tukulti-apil-Ešarra III and that his limmu year does not add to the total number of limmu years. Do you not see the words "20 years" (and not "21 years") in my recent illustration of the reverse of KAV 21-24 in post 12962 as the total number of years in col. VIII from Tukulti-apil-Ešarra III to Aššur-išmanni?
On my question about your continued miscounting of the total number of limmu entries in the sources from Šarru-ken II to Iddin-ahhe (conventionally 32 years but you keep saying 31) you wrote:
Not guilty. Instead I, like everyone else, have 30 years inclusive between the accession of Šarru-ukin (in the limu year of Inurta-ilaya) and Iddin-aḫḫe.
And yet convention says there are not "30 inclusive years between the accession of Šarru-ukin (in the limu year of Inurta-ilaya) and Iddin-aḫḫe" the governor of Simirra. Not only are you confusing two different limmus named Iddin-ahhe, you also seem to have forgotten how to count like everyone else.
Ironically, 31 may actually be the correct number of "years", inclusively, from Šarru-ken II to Iddin-ahhe because A3 puts the limmus of Zeru-ibni and Tab-šar-Aššur on the same line (double eponymy?).
On Schroeder and VAT 11260B:
Was Schroeder really as confused as you make him out to be?
You mean like Joe Baker who confused Iddin-ahhe governor of Dur-Šarruken with Iddin-ahhe governor of Simirra?
Schroeder simply stated in print in 1921 that he made an error in 1920 and he corrected it by pointing out that VAT 11260B belongs to the upper left corner of the tablet. It actually preserves the top edge of the tablet. Thus according to Schroeder's 1921 correction the limmu-list ended at the bottom of col. IX and did not spill over into col. X as Zawadzki thinks. Ungnad agreed with Schroeder and the implications of the limmu-list ending at the bottom of col. IX are fairly clear.
Hi Joe You wrote: As said I have not seen a copy of A3 nor have access to Millard. Is it possible to e-mail me scans of Millard’s handcopy (along with his reconstructed reverse of Cc in Plate 7)?... more
Hi Tory Firstly, thank you for the copies of Millard’s copies of A3 and KAV 21-24. Secondly, great illustrations you have placed on the forum superimposing your arrangement of limus onto copies of... more
Hi Tory Oops, mistakenly said A3 instead of KAV 21-24 (but that should have been obvious). (The following year in 1921 Schroeder shifted gears and proposed that KAV 21-24 col. X did not contain any... more
Hi Joe Almost forgot. What is the argument, is your insistence that the last limu mentioned in column IX was Aššur-gimillu-tere. The authors listed in my last post were designed to show that I can... more
Hi Joe, Tory and all, some remarks and questions about KAV 21-24. - I do not have Millard's book, what does he say about the collation by Jakob-Rost? In particular: - Zawadzki wrote that the very... more
Hi Werner I have an unpublished paper where I propose a mathematical notation 2 for 22x60=1320 at the end of a limu list on two tablets, starting with Su-Istar and a note [1 li-]mu (for 1000)... more
Hi Werner All Millard says is that Jakob-Rost checked his arrangement of the various fragments (shown on Plate 7) and that he disagreed with Millard's placement of VAT 11260B. Like Zawadzki, Millard... more
Hi Tory, I have a ruptured finger ligament, so please excuse the short answer. > All Millard says is that Jakob-Rost checked his arrangement of the various fragments (shown on Plate 7) and that he... more
Hi Werner Werner: I have a ruptured finger ligament, so please excuse the short answer. Yes of course. I hope things improve. TT: All Millard says is that Jakob-Rost checked his arrangement of the... more
Re: Joe's 100+ year old outdated info on eponym-list A3 Tory Thorpe,Wed May 16 23:29
Hi Tory Schroeder explicitly said ... that the limmu-list on KAV 21-24 ended with Aššur-gimilli-tirri but the exact date of this limmu is yet to be determined: "D. h. die Liste umfasste den Zeitraum... more
Hi Joe I was simply not sure which limu your were using to get your “conventional” 32 years. Strange that you suddenly became unsure. We were always talking about the number of years in KAV 21-24... more
Hi Joe Perhaps a graphic of the obverse of A3 will help. This layout has the limmu names in Roman letters overlaying the cuneiform script on the water marked fragment and extending into the missing... more
Hi Joe Perhaps a graphic of the reverse of A3 will help. This layout has the limmu names in Roman letters overlaying the cuneiform script on the water marked fragment and extending into the missing... more
Hi all, I could feel something was off. Another look at the fragment and I realized I put the limmus of Zeru-ibni and Tab-šar-Aššur on two separate lines when in fact A3 shows them on the same line.... more