The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum - Tory Thorpe Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1

Hi Tory

So what is the undisputable evidence linking the limmus of Abi-ili son of Katiri and Sulmanu-suma-usur to the reign of Tukulti-Ninurta I?

For starters see my post 6019 of 19 Feb 2006 which was based on Röllig’s Dur Katlimmu data (now slightly out of date).

A tight RC Date for the Sea Peoples? — Chris, Thu May 3 21:35

Members of this forum may be interested in the following article: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0020232 Chris
- Invasion routes of Sea Peoples V. Crusades — Ronald L Hughes. , Mon May 14 22:01
  
  Dear Chris, On the site you gave us concerning the invasion(s) of the Sea People, in Fig. 1, you all can view one educated view of all of the possible invasion routes of these people. Thus;... more
- - Invasion routes of Sea Peoples V. Crusades — Jon Smyth, Wed May 23 16:36
    
    Ron. For those who choose to accept mainland Greece or Crete had any role to play in this eastward wave of marauding Sea Peoples then you might find an article by Mercourios Georgiadis, The... more
  - - Re: Invasion routes of Sea Peoples V. Crusades — Clark Whelton, Thu May 24 00:32
      
      On April 24 I attended a lecture in New York on “New Evidence for the Sea People in Anatolia,” by Robert Koehl, professor of archaeology at Hunter College. In brief, Koehl interprets Late Helladic... more
    - - Some of my memories! — Ronald L. Hughes, Sat May 26 16:29
        
        http://www.ihaal.com/articles/A%20chronological%20revolution%20made%20by%20historical%20analytics.pdf Regards, Ron
      - Islands! Just what are they? — Ronald L. Hughes, Mon May 28 17:29
        
        So, it seems we have Egypt attacked by some group of people who either "claim to be from Island civilizations" or were for some other reason "determined to be from a civiized area that was "made up... more
        Islands! Just what are they? — Jon Smyth, Wed May 30 21:52
        
        Ron. The use of the term "Isle" in the Egyptian texts does not appear to be applied to the whole confederation. In one case specifically it is applied to the Denyen and we do know that Cyprus was... more
      - Correction — Clark Whelton, Fri May 25 00:32
        
        Today I contacted Professor Koehl to make sure that I accurately summarized his lecture on the Sea People and Anatolia. He pointed out an error... "It's Mycenaean IIIC Middle that is the basis for... more
      - Correction — Jon Smyth, Fri May 25 14:57
        
        "Today I contacted Professor Koehl to make sure that I accurately summarized his lecture on the Sea People and Anatolia. He pointed out an error... "It's Mycenaean IIIC Middle that is the basis for... more
      - Pottery indicates...what? — Jon Smyth, Thu May 24 07:50
        
        Clark. How to distinguish between pottery appearing as a result of trade with pottery appearing as a result of invasion? Regards, Jon S.
      - Re: Pottery indicates...what? — Clark Whelton, Thu May 24 08:50
        
        >>>>>>How to distinguish between pottery appearing as a result of trade with pottery appearing as a result of invasion? Jon S. Destruction layers. Koehl interprets the evidence as showing a pattern... more
        Re: Pottery indicates...what? — Jon Smyth, Thu May 24 09:42
        
        Clark. People who migrate tend to assemble storage containers for the journey, simply because a migration takes planning. Assuming anyone migrated to the Levant from the Aegean, where is the pottery... more
        Re: Pottery indicates...what? — Clark Whelton, Thu May 24 09:56
        
        >>>>>...There are no Aegean-style burials, there are no Aegean-style weapons, there are no Aegean-style foundations for homes, palaces or meeting centers. Jon S. If I understand Koehl's position, the ... more
        Re: Pottery indicates...what? — Jon Smyth, Thu May 24 13:27
        
        "If I understand Koehl's position, the Sea Peoples moved eastward through southern Anatolia. They conquered and settled the Amuq valley ("northern Philistia"). Their migration toward Egypt came... more
        Re: Pottery indicates...what? — Ian Onvlee, Thu May 24 09:16
        
        Destruction layers. Koehl interprets the evidence as showing a pattern of conquest and settlement by the Sea Peoples. Their subsequent movement down the coast of Canaan followed the same pattern. It... more
    - Aegean routes! — Ronald L. Hughes, Wed May 23 17:37
      
      Dear Jon S., I thought that the "Peoples of the Sea" came via both the land and the Sea? But perhaps I am wrong. Besides, just what remains would be left if the entire purpose of the Sea Lane attack... more
    - - Aegean routes! — Ian Onvlee, Thu May 24 08:06
        
        Ron, There are also lots of theories out there claiming that these sea peoples were ET's or the Maya's from Central America. They make for good science fiction, just like Fomenko's theories, but not... more
      - Aegean routes! — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 24 14:33
        
        My dear Ian, Regarde', I fail to see any reason for you to insulate your opinion into what has become an almost personal discussion! Forthwith, you should either be quite, or propose some other... more
      - Aegean routes! — Jon Smyth, Thu May 24 07:33
        
        Dear Ron. "I thought that the "Peoples of the Sea" came via both the land and the Sea? But perhaps I am wrong." But where does this assumption come from, not from archaeology, neither from ancient... more
      - "By land or by sea?" — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 24 14:23
        
        MY dear Jon! I thought it was particularly clear! Did the "People of the Sea(s)" only attack "Port Cities?", via the Sea? Is there not mentioned words about their "Laager?", or "baggage train", and... more
        Re: "By land or by sea?" — Anonymous, Fri May 25 15:17
        
        Ron. You ask.. "Is there not mentioned words about their "Laager?", or "baggage train", and other means of assualt?" Unless you are able to provide a quote I must assume you are referring to the text ... more
  - Invasion routes of Sea Peoples V. Crusades — Chris, Wed May 16 18:40
    
    Ron, There are only so many practical routes to get from A to B. Even Fomenko would concede that the physical geography of the region has not changed significantly in the last 5,000 years. Chris
  - - Numerical times! — Ronald L, Hughes, Wed May 16 19:15
      
      So Sir Chris, Do the events have any relationship to chronology? That is can the oldeset events have any solid times? Or if not, are there any periods between the so called "ancient" invasions and... more
- Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples — gregwade, Sat May 5 22:50
  
  Thank you Chris for that. I previously accepted the common theory that the Sea Peoples were either Ionian or Cilician. What this paper, in common with most other material, does not explain, is how... more
- - Sea People or People of the Sea, or Isles, etc — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 10 15:06
    
    Has anyone on this site ever really looked at the carvings in stone that have been reproduced from Medinet Habu? If so, you can instantly see headgear that will remind one of the headgear of the... more
  - - Sea People or People of the Sea, or Isles, etc — Jon Smyth, Wed May 23 06:59
      
      "Has anyone on this site ever really looked at the carvings in stone that have been reproduced from Medinet Habu?" It should be viewed as a prerequisit in any debate on their origins. Tunics with a... more
    - - Chevrons and helmets! — Ronald L. Hughes, Sat May 26 17:32
        
        Jon, I just thought I would post part of a missive of mine concerning this problem that exists between us. It is long! On other sites found within the Inter-Net, I have made posts concerning the... more
      - CHEVRONS, etc, — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 31 15:46
        
        From my small missive already posted and mostly ignored, are these facts; http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/triv4-4a.htm "Chevrons Chevron is a French word meaning rafter or roof, which is what a... more
        CHEVRON's! — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 31 15:18
        
        Dear Jon, as well as others obvious from there lack of response to my earlier postings. Above, just one part of my small missive, shows this; "http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/triv4-4a.htm... more
        End of the above post, and 14C — Ronald L. Hughes, Mon May 28 13:30
        
        Sorry but my above post exceeded the limits of this site! but If any of you want the rest of it, I got it! And, for a good laugh, here is what the "Huffington Post" has as its latest evaulation of... more
        Examples from the sites above. — Ronald L. Hughes, Mon May 28 12:56
        
        I hope this transfers correctly. The left image shows two Shardana warriors equipped with large and medium size shields, bonnet like helmets, swords, and two javelins. Note the first warriors... more
        Lobster Style is used in place of Chevron! — Ronald L. Hughes, Mon May 28 13:01
        
        You will notice that the author(s) of the above use the term, "Lobster Style" in place of the more apparent term "Chevron!" I wonder why? Laugh! Regards, Ron
      - "Plumed head-gear" — Ronald L. Hughes , Wed May 23 17:43
        
        Dear Jon! I know that certain sources have tended to lend credence to the idea that it was made up of "Plumes" and I would guess meaning "Plumes of feathers?" But that is merely an assumption, since... more
      - "Plumed head-gear" — Ian Onvlee, Thu May 24 08:11
        
        I understood that those "plumes" were actually the bundeled hairdo's (similar to the rasta-hairdo's), set upright to keep the hair from falling over their faces while battling. Ian
        Rasta man hair? LOL — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 24 14:36
        
        Dear Ian, You must have had too much "Cool-Aid?" LOL Thanks for the humor, however Ron
        "Plumed head-gear" — Jon Smyth, Thu May 24 07:46
        
        Ron. Are you suggesting that horse-hair offers better protection that feathers? Perhaps the headgear was not intended to offer protection, afterall body armour was not prevalent in these wars and... more
        Armor?/Plummed head gear — Ronald L, Hughes, Wed May 30 07:03
        
        Jon, you wrote; "Are you suggesting that horse-hair offers better protection that feathers? Yes, I do so suggest, since these stiff bristles, imbeded within a slab of wood would certainly offer some... more
        Peleset/Sea People Head Gear — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 24 18:54
        
        Dear Jon, I don't really know where you get your information since you send me things I have never heard of or seen!! (wonder) But I can well send to you sites like this, which show both the... more
        Peleset/Sea People Head Gear — Jon Smyth, Fri May 25 16:11
        
        Ron. "I don't really know where you get your information since you send me things I have never heard of or seen!! (wonder)" You need to view the original Univ. of Chicago publications on... more
        Medinet Habu reproductions, etc.! — Ronald L. Hughes, Sat May 26 17:21
        
        Jon, whilst I have not yet seen your evidence, I will here post mine. http://mail.aol.com/36081-111/aol-6/en-us/Suite.aspx I hope it comes thru! You will see the apparent "Chevrons" in varing numbers ... more
        Wooden helmets! — Ronald L. Hughes, Sat May 26 16:27
        
        Why Jon, just why can't you accept such an idea? I am holding in my hands or rather looking at a shoe polish brush, whith very stiff horse hair bristles sticking out of it. Interestingly it is even... more
        Horse-hair in wood! — Ronald L. Hughes, Mon May 28 12:45
        
        Jon, At this site you can well see some examples that resemble the head gear found at Medinet Habu! http://www.ebay.com/sch/Clothing-Shoes-Accessories-/11450/i.html?_nkw=horsehair+shoe+brush You... more
        Did not post the site!!! — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 24 18:55
        
        http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Medinet_Habu/Medinet_Habu.htm I have a host of others if you are incapable of finding them for yourself! Regards, Ron
        "Horse hair" armor! — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 24 14:29
        
        Dear Jon, Perhaps you have never "polished shoes" with wax? If you have not, which is common amoung the "young" people of today, you might well have used a "Horse Hair" brush to polish the leather?... more
  - Super-powers reduced by "Sea Peoples"? — Jon Smyth, Sun May 6 15:23
    
    Hi Greg. "What this paper, in common with most other material, does not explain, is how they came to be so overpowering when coming into contact with "super-powers" who were already fully... more
  - - Sea People or People of the Sea, or Isles, etc — Ronald L. Hughes, Mon May 7 14:33
      
      Dear Jon, and others; Just how many of you have read the works of Velikovsky? I feel that he made a good argument for his case, how about you? But, I would go a great deal further in my... more
    - - Velikovsky? — Jon Smyth, Tue May 8 22:33
        
        "Dear Jon, and others; Just how many of you have read the works of Velikovsky? Actually Ron, the only thing that Velikovsky got right was the inaccuracy of Radio-Carbon dating, at that time. Regards, ... more
      - Velikovsky? — Clark Whelton, Wed May 9 01:06
        
        A former admirer of Velikovsky's, I came to see that his technique of using Biblical texts as a template for shortening ancient chronology was faulty. However, I think his book "Oedipus and Ahknaton" ... more
        Velikovsky — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 10 14:57
        
        Dear Clark, Yes there does exist the possiblity that the good meaning Docktor will be proven correct on at least some of his amazing deductions, and if so, then the rotten supporting pilings of... more
      - Specifically; "People of the Islands!" — Ronald L. Hughes, Tue May 8 15:44
        
        If I might, I will try to let you understand my reasoning. That is, after this event, I.e., the attack upon Egypt during the rule of a King that we now refer to as Necho II (I believe), and as well... more
  - Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Chris, Sun May 6 00:34
    
    Certainly, but the paper isn't meant to be a historical analysis, only a chronological one, so those issues are outside its scope. By combining archaeological data with radio-carbon and... more
  - - Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Ian Onvlee, Sun May 6 04:36
      
      Hi Chris, Here's what I think. The article is not very trustworth. It is led by an a priori bias towards the low Egyptian chronology and the calibrated radiocarbon dates are based on a mixture of... more
    - - Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Joe Baker, Wed May 9 07:08
        
        Hi Ian I do not really follow you. Why do you choose to use only one piece of data from Level 7A, that yields a radiocarbon age of 3020±40 AMS 14 C yr BP? Why not the sample at 2910±40 AMS 14 C yr... more
      - A dated Assyrian text related to the Sea People invasion? — Joe Baker, Fri May 11 16:11
        
        Hi All The Agade mailing list has just alerted me to some papers on the discoveries at Tell Sadi Abyad (on the The Ancient World Online site). And although the papers are not concerned with... more
        Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Mon May 14 06:29
        
        Hi Joe, According to personal communication by Frans Wiggermann T 98-119 was followed by T 96-1. Therein Ahi-malik, the governor of Emar, instigates peace talks with the king of Karkemis. Thus Emar... more
        Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Joe Baker, Tue May 15 08:03
        
        Hi Michael So much for my speculation. I guess I will have to wait for the full publication to examine it in a better light. I hope it is soon - after all Wiggermann has been siting of these... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Tue May 15 10:04
        
        Hi Joe, T98-119 is dated in the eponym year Assur-nirari (III.), certainly his first year, T 96-1 in the eponym year Sulmanu-ahha-iddina, probably the second year of Adad-nirari III. Regards Michael
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory Thorpe, Tue May 15 10:28
        
        Michael, How can you be sure this is the eponymy of Assur-Nirari III and not Assur-Nirari IV? Regards Tory
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Tue May 15 11:04
        
        Hi Tory, The official buildings of Tell Sabi Abyad fell in ruins before, already under Ninurta-apil-ekur. He abolished the kingship of Hanigalbat and the career of its king Ili-pada, the owner of... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory Thorpe, Tue May 15 12:21
        
        Hi Michael, Where can I read more specifics about the occupation of Tell Sabi Abyad and its excavated strata? To be abandoned and never again occupied since Ninurta-apil-Ekur seems a bit far-fetched. ... more
        Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Delvon, Tue May 15 18:04
        
        Hi Tory, "Where can I read more specifics about the occupation of Tell Sabi Abyad and its excavated strata? To be abandoned and never again occupied since Ninurta-apil-Ekur seems a bit far-fetched."... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory Thorpe, Tue May 15 23:38
        
        Hi Delvon, Thank you for that. Kim Duistermaat writes that Tell Sabi Abyad has Late Bronze Age remains from the 14th or beginning of the 13th century BC. At the end of the 13th century, after a... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Wed May 16 04:25
        
        Hi Tory, T98-119 tells of an action of Ili-pada, viceroy of Hanigalbat under Assur-nirari III. He died before his son Ninurta-apil-ekur became king of Assyria and abolished the kingship of... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory Thorpe, Wed May 16 05:10
        
        Hi Michael, There was more than one king of Assyria named Assur-Nirari. Are you absolutely sure there was only ever one ruler of Hanigalbat named Ili-pada? There was a limmu Ili-pada in the time of... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Wed May 16 08:34
        
        Hi Tory, T 96-1 is one of the texts, found together and the content belong together. The Ili-pada in this texts succeeded Sulmanu-musabsi as Viceroy in the last year(s) of Tukulti-ninurta I. (letter... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory Thorpe, Wed May 16 08:49
        
        Hi Michael, What text(s) unambiguously link Viceroy Sulmanu-musabsi to Tukulti-Ninurta I? Regards Tory
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Wed May 16 09:29
        
        Hi Tory, Sulmanu-musabsi appears as "Grand Vizir" in documents, dated to the eponym years of Abi-ili (son of Katiri) and Sulmanu-suma-usur toward the end of the reign of Tukulti-Ninurta I. In the... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory Thorpe, Thu May 17 06:53
        
        Hi Michael Devil's advocate here. I understand Sulmanu-musabsi the "Grand Vizier" is mentioned on documents dated to the limmu years of Abi-ili son of Katiri and Sulmanu-suma-usur. These limmu dated... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Fri May 18 04:05
        
        Hi Tory, The royal inscriptions of Tukulti-Ninurta are in fact dated with eponyms, which also occur at Tell Seh Hamad. You know the research and publications of the relevant scholars. If one... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory, Sun May 20 22:33
        
        Hi Michael Yes I know the royal inscriptions of Tukulti-Ninurta I. However I do not know that any are dated by the Abi-ili and Sulmanu-suma-usur limmus who are attested at Tell Seh Hamad. I am not... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Mon May 21 02:01
        
        Hi Tory, Other limus (especially Ina-Assur-sumi-asbat) appear in the royal inscriptions of Tukulti-Ninurta I. These in turn have a relationship with other texts of these limus and this with eponyms,... more
        Tory Thorpe Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Joe Baker, Thu May 17 09:17
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Joe Baker, Wed May 16 06:40
        
        Hi Tory Some of Wiggermann’s papers are here http://vu-nl.academia.edu/FransWiggermann/Papers On page 59 of the first paper, “Wein, Weib und Gesang in een Midden-Assyrische nederzetting aan de... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Tory Thorpe, Wed May 16 08:45
        
        Hi Joe I assume Level 6 up to Level 3 are simply building phases and not sealed destruction layers. My experience is that the lifespan and history of building phases are notoriously difficult to... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Joe Baker, Wed May 16 09:29
        
        Hi Tory No. Just saying that the presence of limu Inurta-nadin-apli (in the Mannu-ki-Adad archive - which as I understand was not found in a Level 3 context) can not be used to date Level 3 to... more
        Re: Tell Sadi Abyad T 96-1 — Michael Liebig, Wed May 16 09:45
        
        Hi all, in addition to the temporal classification of Ili-pada: In T96-1 (Steward Tamitte to Ili-pada) there is, as already said, mentioned a conflict between Karkemis and Emar. That must have been... more
        A dated Assyrian text related to the Sea People invasion? — Ian Onvlee, Sat May 12 04:31
        
        Hi Joe, If there is a connection then maybe the latest date for a large scale Sea People invasion becomes the last year of Aššur-nadin-apli (for me 1195). One may ask the same question concerning the ... more
        Ramesses II and III, etc. — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 10 15:13
        
        Yes Joe, You wrote in your last sentence; "Pick up a serious work and its just a mass of black type." And no truer words have ever been spoken! Thanks! This is because of the advent and quickly... more
        Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Ian Onvlee, Wed May 9 20:45
        
        Hi Joe, Thanks for responding. You asked me: I do not really follow you. Why do you choose to use only one piece of data from Level 7A, that yields a radiocarbon age of 3020±40 AMS 14C yr BP? Why not ... more
        14C dates for the Ramesses — Ronald L. Hughes, Thu May 10 15:20
        
        Yes Ian and others, It does seem that their does exist numerous problems with 14C dating. But I would suggest that it is more serious than you can conceive. So I will suggest that you move all of... more
        14C dates for the Ramesses — Ian Onvlee, Thu May 10 15:45
        
        No Ron, There are no numberous problems with 14C dating. You must be mixed up with Velikovsky's days, when that was indeed the case. But those problems have long been solved in the mean time. The 14C ... more
        14C problems — Ronald L, Hughes, Thu May 10 15:59
        
        My dear Ian, I hope you are well? But your deigned reliance upon a dating method that is nothing but a "Whore" to historians and chronologists, etc. is exaspertrating to say the least! So you realize ... more
        14C problems — Ian Onvlee, Fri May 11 02:40
        
        Dear Ron, And Malta is indeed one of the oldest cultures. What's your problem with that? Do you have anti-Malta sentiments for some reason? The RC data of the article I critisized are not RC problems ... more
        re: 14C problems — Marianne Luban, Fri May 11 10:42
        
        Ian: "There are two main political camps: those who do anything to discredit the biblical narative and others who will do anything to prove the Bible right in every word." Think this is an... more
        re: 14C problems — Ian Onvlee, Fri May 11 13:08
        
        "There are two main political camps: those who do anything to discredit the biblical narative and others who will do anything to prove the Bible right in every word." Think this is an exaggeration.... more
        The Bible As History — Marianne Luban, Fri May 11 13:46
        
        Ian: "There are two main political camps: those who do anything to discredit the biblical narative and others who will do anything to prove the Bible right in every word." Marianne: "Think this is an ... more
        The Bible As History — Ian Onvlee, Sat May 12 04:15
        
        Marianne, I mostly disagreed with your statement that Israel depends on that Bible alone in a claim for right to existence. Ok, I agree that the statement was a bit too bold. Of course Israel will... more
        re: 14C problems — Tory Thorpe, Fri May 11 13:35
        
        Tory too takes all this much too personal. Like everywhere else in the world, the younger generation of Israel might not give a shit anymore about the Bible, save the orthodox rabbis and would-be... more
        re: 14C problems — Ian Onvlee, Sat May 12 03:53
        
        Tory, You're still taking it far too personal. And you must be joking to pretend you know everything about Israel just because you are a citizen there. Do you think that all Americans know what is... more
        re: 14C problems — Tory, Sat May 12 07:00
        
        If you want to know something real about Holland and its politics you don't go to India and talk to someone who has never been to Holland and does not speak the language. That's how stupid your... more
        re: 14C problems — Ian Onvlee, Wed May 16 16:06
        
        Tory, Your assertions are overly stupid. You assume too much. Do you really think I talked to some Indian to get information from Israel. I talked to archaeologists in Israel to know some things... more
        re: 14C problems — Tory Thorpe, Wed May 16 22:59
        
        You have not talked to a single Israeli archaeologist who told you the Israeli government conspires to prove the Bible right so that the state has a legitimate right to exist. Enough with your... more
        re: 14C problems — Ian Onvlee, Thu May 24 07:46
        
        Tory, Let's give it a rest, shall we? I'm not even remotely interested in this never ending to and fro mud slinging bullshit or in defending myself against your continuing hautain know-it-all... more
        Re: 14C problems — Tory, Fri May 11 04:08
        
        the Bible constitutes the national pride of the state of Israel, their very legitimation for being there in the first place. If someone proves the Bible to be one big horrific lie from beginning to... more
      - Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Chris, Tue May 8 16:40
        
        Hi Ian -- What is the source for the table you included in your comments? It is not obvious how to reconcile this table or your statement " For the 1-sigma range [the paper] chooses to keep to the... more
      - Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Marianne Luban, Sat May 12 15:04
        
        I found an article here interesting http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2010/07/12/The-Philistines-Enter-Canaan-Were-They-Egyptian-Lackeys-or-Invading-Conquerors.aspx#Article It seems to maintain... more
        Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Ian Onvlee, Wed May 9 05:54
        
        Hi Chris, I only added recalculated Intcal09 calibration data based on the radiocarbon dates as given in their own table 1. The data I compared my recalculations with are the calibrated data they... more
        Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Chris, Wed May 16 18:21
        
        God almighty one takes a week out on the road and a mild suggestion for a discussion on chronometric methods mutates into a flame-war about whether the Bible is a theological basis for the existence... more
        Re: A tight RC date for the Sea Peoples? — Ian Onvlee, Thu May 24 07:26
        
        Dear Chris, You say: "Recalculated how? Do you have access to the IntCal09 program?" It's not so difficult. You can freely download both Oxcal and Intcal calculators from the internet. The Oxcal... more
        Sea People destruction? — Jon Smyth, Tue May 8 22:28
        
        "That the destruction layer was caused by the Sea Peoples is not just an assumption. It seems well-supported by the changes in material culture they summarise." If we are referring to Levantine... more
        Re: Sea People destruction? — Chris, Wed May 16 18:38
        
        Jon -- I was referring to the statements in the article that the pre-destruction site was characterised by " a large variety of Mycenean (Late Helladic IIIB), local Late Helladic IIIC Early and Late... more
        Re: Sea People destruction? — Jon Smyth, Wed May 23 16:07
        
        Chris. You write: I was referring to the statements in the article that the pre-destruction site was characterised by "a large variety of Mycenean (Late Helladic IIIB), local Late Helladic IIIC Early ... more
        Re: Sea People destruction? — Ian Onvlee, Thu May 24 07:59
        
        Jon, You pointed out: 1. Generally, peoples who wrought destruction without settling are peoples who have no need of somewhere to settle. An argument which flies in the face of the conventional... more

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