Rich McQuillen
re: the age of kv55
Mon Aug 29, 2016 21:46
2601:581:c001:2260:5834:581d:931e:ed9d

Old: Hawass/Saleem, Harris/Wente
Young: Grafton Elliot Smith, 1967(Harrison, R. G. 1966)
****
Add 2 more to the Young camp... Filer(2000) and Derry(1931)

Filer (2000) said:
"More conclusively, many skeletal elements also show some level of immaturity. As bones grow and approach maturity various unattached elements (epiphyses) fuse to the main bone preventing further growth, and in time these lines of fusion fade and become obliterated. Generally, the bones in the human skeleton complete their fusion in a particular order and at certain times (within a range of ages), aiding an age assessment. In the case of the KV 55 skeleton it is quite clear that some bony elements have not entirely completed their fusion process. For example, lines of fusion (where elements have united but the line has not been obliterated) can be clearly seen at the ends of the upper and lower limbs which, when assessed separately and then compared, suggest an age at death of between eighteen and twenty-one. Interestingly, Elliot Smith states that all the limb bones are fully fused and consolidated, but as noted above, this is definitely not the case.The iliac crest (the outer edge of the hip bones) is not fully united indicating an age, in males, of no more than twenty-three to twenty-five years. In Elliot Smith's 1912 report he noted that the sternal ends of the clavicles are totally unfused yet failed to explore the implications of this. The acromial (or shoulder) ends of the clavicles in the KV 55 skeleton are fused, supporting an age of about twenty-two or twenty-three years but the sternal epiphyses,the last bones to unite in the skeleton (in most individuals by twenty-five years of age), are not at all fused, setting an upper limit of twenty-five years for this individual's age." (Filer 2000: 13-14)

Derry (1931) said:
"If we turn now to the rest of the bones for information regarding: the possible age at death, we find that ail the bones whose epiphyses normally unite at or about the age of 21 years are completely joined. But there are several still incomplete which by European standards may remain ununited up to the age of 25 or even later. In the skeleton under review these are, the sternal end of the clavicle, the vertebral border of the scapula, the crest of the ilium, the epiphyses of the heads of the ribs and the upper and lower epiphyses of the bodies of some of the vertebrae... It has been shown however that in the case of the epiphyses of the upper limb in Egyptians of the present time, there is a marked difference as compared with the dates given for Europeans, the former race being definitely earlier than the latter, the gain being as much as two years in some epiphyses, and in others about one year. Tn the case of the skeleton we are discussing, the epiphyses still remaining un-united are those which in the majority of cases in Europeans are closed by the age of about 25, but as in the supposed Akhenaten bones they are all still incompletely united, and in some, sternal end of clavicle and heads of ribs, completely separate, we should, even if the bones were those of a European, be entitled to say that the person to whom they belonged was in all probability not more than 24 years of age at the time of death. If again we assume that what appears to be true for the epiphyses of the upper limb in modern Egyptians is likely to be true also for the rest of their bones, then the bones of the skeleton we are considering may be those of a man of not more than 23 years of age." (Derry 1931: 117-118)

  • Re:The Age of KV55Joe Baker, Mon Aug 29 20:37
    Hi Kim You commented on the age estimate of the KV55 mummy in the book "Scanning the Pharaohs" by Z. Hawass and S. Saleem Thus the same team who want KV55 to be aged 35-45 (their assessment, not... more
    • Re:The Age of KV55Kim Sargerson, Mon Aug 29 22:45
      Hi Joe "You are forgetting things." Yes, I am. It was 1966, not 1967. It was Harrison's examination I was referring to. This concluded that the age ranges for two features, eruption of the wisdom... more
      • re: The Age of KV55Marianne Luban, Tue Aug 30 00:26
        Kim: "The magic bricks are surely not original to the Akhetaten burial, and even the coffin and canopic jars were altered at least once in the tomb. Not what I would call a convincing provenance.... more
    • re: the age of kv55 — Rich McQuillen, Mon Aug 29 21:46
      • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Tue Aug 30 10:09
        Unfortunately, there is not even a world standard for aging human skeletal remains. https://bonesdontlie.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/determining-age-in-human-remains-call-for-standards/ However, once... more
        • re: the age of kv55Jaime O, Tue Aug 30 15:50
          Hi all, Marianne, if you'll allow me to interject here. "However, once again, Professor Smith of the Cairo School of Medicine had experience with ancient Egyptian remains. He told Weigall he thought... more
          • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Wed Aug 31 10:09
            Jaime: "Smenkhkare was about 16 years old when he sired Tutankhamun by a sister." I wrote: "You see? It's very easy to say "Oh, well, that KV55 guy has to be Smenkhkare" but it's not very easy to... more
            • re: the age of kv55Jaime O, Wed Aug 31 12:58
              Hi Marianne, Thank you for the reply. "Well, I'm sorry you would characterize my valid comment about "easy" as opposed to "compelling scenario" as a "rant"." My apologies here. English is not my... more
              • Re: the age of kv55Joe Baker, Fri Sep 2 05:15
                Hi Jaime Meryre II's tomb has the last appearance of the royal Amarna family dated to Year 12 and these representations are followed by Smenkhkare's debut with Meritaten by his side. I too think the... more
                • re: the age of kv55Jaime O, Sat Sep 3 07:52
                  Hi Joe, thank you for your comments. I appreciate your remarks on Meryre II and they do make sense. To some extent. You and me seem to agree that Meritaten was likelier than not Ankhkhe(t)perure... more
                  • re: the age of kv55Kim Sargerson, Mon Sep 5 07:59
                    Hi Jaime, Joe I think too much is made of "erasure". There are not always political overtones to this. The calcite jar which apparently had the cartouches of Smenkhkare and Akhenaten side by side,... more
                    • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Mon Sep 5 12:23
                      Kim: Just a few responses... "It should be remembered that most of Tutankhamun's gravegoods come from a small window of time at the end of the Amarna period. There is one winejar from Amunhotep III... more
                • Re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Fri Sep 2 10:17
                  Hello Joe, Jaime "Meryre II's tomb has the last appearance of the royal Amarna family dated to Year 12 and these representations are followed by Smenkhkare's debut with Meritaten by his side." "I too ... more
                  • CorrectionMarianne Luban, Fri Sep 2 10:47
                    Joe: "Phantom children only ever depicted/mentioned in illustrations/texts from the Kiya dedicated Meru-Aten. Her original inscriptions were later reinscribed to represent the older surviving... more
              • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Wed Aug 31 21:19
                I wrote: "However, I do not believe that Akhenaten [Tutankhamun, per Post 17018] was born to Nefertiti until after Year 12. I am with Gabolde in thinking that the child, shielded by fans and attended ... more
                • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Thu Sep 1 08:03
                  I wrote: "I don't think the name "Smenkhkare" ever appears in KV62. I will have to confirm. Regardless, there is still KV55, whose earliest door seals bear the name of Tutankhamun--so in his reign."... more
                  • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Thu Sep 1 09:34
                    Anything that can be known about any sequins from KV62 can be found on page 60 of Reeves' "After Tutankhamun". Interesting chapter, but still nothing verifying Smenkhkare on those sequins.... more
                    • Pharaohs and revisionsJaime O, Thu Sep 1 10:08
                      Hi Marianne, "I doubt those would have been portrayed as being so important--fans and all. And why kill off that baby? Just because Nefertiti can have been its mother? " Because we know nothing of... more
              • Yet another correctionJaime O, Wed Aug 31 12:59
                "c) AFAIK, the coffin is considered to have been reused from a female to fit Akhenaten" I meant to say "a male' instead of 'Akhenaten' Regards, Jaime
            • CorrectionMarianne Luban, Wed Aug 31 10:10
              I should certainly have written "However, I do not believe that TUTANKHAMUN was born to Nefertiti until after Year 12."
          • A small noteJaime O, Tue Aug 30 16:06
            Marianne, you also asked: "If he married Meritaten around Year 12 of Akhenaten, then when was Meritaten the wife of her own father, since she was probably less than 12 in Year 12?" In my scheme, she... more
      • re: the age of kv55Kim Sargerson, Mon Aug 29 23:23
        Hello Rich Thank you for posting these quotations. Add two more to the "young" camp - Dr Brenda Baker (2010) and Dr Eugene Strouhal (2010 based on an examination in 1998). All the pathology... more
      • re: 500 gold sheets foundRich McQuillen, Mon Aug 29 21:55
        Hopefully this new ongoing study comes up with some new evidence to add to this debate. Forgotton box may hold the key to Egypt’s pharaoh without a face... more
        • Re: re: 500 gold sheets foundJoe Baker, Tue Aug 30 04:06
          Hi Rich You quoted from a website In it were 500 scrunched-up gold sheets, the remains of a skull — and an old note scribbled in French with the date the tomb was found. ... The note simply states... more
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