Marianne Luban
re: the age of kv55
Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:09
75.162.250.209

Unfortunately, there is not even a world standard for aging human skeletal remains.

https://bonesdontlie.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/determining-age-in-human-remains-call-for-standards/

However, once again, Professor Smith of the Cairo School of Medicine had experience with ancient Egyptian remains. He told Weigall he thought the KV55 individual was a man who had died at the age of 30. In his book, "The Royal Mummies", he opined that the man was "at least 24". That was his lower end estimate.

If there was an eight-year coregency between Amenhotep III and his heir, then the latter had to be at least 13 years old at the time for one reason alone. Akhenaten's eldest daughter, Meritaten, had to be born shortly after his elevation. At Karnak there is, at first, only Meritaten following behind Nefertiti. Had Akhenaten been an older man or youth, coregency or no, one might have expected him to have had more than one daughter in the beginning. These people married young! By Year 5, there were still only two daughters.

If KV55 is Smenkhkare, he would have to be the father of Tutankhamun, according to the DNA. Since Tut is supposed to have been 18 or 19 years old when he died, and his highest attested year is 10, then he became king at the age of eight or nine. If your son is eight, in order for you to be his father and die at the age of 24, you would have to have been 16 when he was born. Smenkhkare has only a year of attested reign, so where does he fit into the reign of Akhenaten? He has to be the son of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye--so when was he born? If he married Meritaten around Year 12 of Akhenaten, then when was Meritaten the wife of her own father, since she was probably less than 12 in Year 12? If Smenkhare was 16 in Year 12--without a coregency he had hardly any time to be born before Amenhotep III died. The problem is--the first time we see Smenkhkare he is already a king. So why would Akhenaten want to have made a brother in his own generation a coregent? Year 12 subtracted from Year 17 is only five years. So, again, when was Tut born in order to succeed at age 8 or 9?

You see? It's very easy to say "Oh, well, that KV55 guy has to be Smenkhkare" but it's not very easy to answer those questions, is it? As far as I am aware, when you have a theory in Egyptology, you must be able to back it up with a scenario. Well? What's yours?

  • re: the age of kv55Rich McQuillen, Mon Aug 29 21:46
    Old: Hawass/Saleem, Harris/Wente Young: Grafton Elliot Smith, 1967(Harrison, R. G. 1966) **** Add 2 more to the Young camp... Filer(2000) and Derry(1931) Filer (2000) said: "More conclusively, many... more
    • re: the age of kv55 — Marianne Luban, Tue Aug 30 10:09
      • re: the age of kv55Jaime O, Tue Aug 30 15:50
        Hi all, Marianne, if you'll allow me to interject here. "However, once again, Professor Smith of the Cairo School of Medicine had experience with ancient Egyptian remains. He told Weigall he thought... more
        • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Wed Aug 31 10:09
          Jaime: "Smenkhkare was about 16 years old when he sired Tutankhamun by a sister." I wrote: "You see? It's very easy to say "Oh, well, that KV55 guy has to be Smenkhkare" but it's not very easy to... more
          • re: the age of kv55Jaime O, Wed Aug 31 12:58
            Hi Marianne, Thank you for the reply. "Well, I'm sorry you would characterize my valid comment about "easy" as opposed to "compelling scenario" as a "rant"." My apologies here. English is not my... more
            • Re: the age of kv55Joe Baker, Fri Sep 2 05:15
              Hi Jaime Meryre II's tomb has the last appearance of the royal Amarna family dated to Year 12 and these representations are followed by Smenkhkare's debut with Meritaten by his side. I too think the... more
              • re: the age of kv55Jaime O, Sat Sep 3 07:52
                Hi Joe, thank you for your comments. I appreciate your remarks on Meryre II and they do make sense. To some extent. You and me seem to agree that Meritaten was likelier than not Ankhkhe(t)perure... more
                • re: the age of kv55Kim Sargerson, Mon Sep 5 07:59
                  Hi Jaime, Joe I think too much is made of "erasure". There are not always political overtones to this. The calcite jar which apparently had the cartouches of Smenkhkare and Akhenaten side by side,... more
                  • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Mon Sep 5 12:23
                    Kim: Just a few responses... "It should be remembered that most of Tutankhamun's gravegoods come from a small window of time at the end of the Amarna period. There is one winejar from Amunhotep III... more
                    • re: the age of kv55Kim Sargerson, Mon Sep 5 19:05
                      Hi Marianne Thank you for your comments. I wrote "(and no objects attesting to a coregency of Amunhotep III and Akhenaten)." Perhaps I could have phrased that better. What I am trying to say is that... more
              • Re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Fri Sep 2 10:17
                Hello Joe, Jaime "Meryre II's tomb has the last appearance of the royal Amarna family dated to Year 12 and these representations are followed by Smenkhkare's debut with Meritaten by his side." "I too ... more
                • CorrectionMarianne Luban, Fri Sep 2 10:47
                  Joe: "Phantom children only ever depicted/mentioned in illustrations/texts from the Kiya dedicated Meru-Aten. Her original inscriptions were later reinscribed to represent the older surviving... more
            • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Wed Aug 31 21:19
              I wrote: "However, I do not believe that Akhenaten [Tutankhamun, per Post 17018] was born to Nefertiti until after Year 12. I am with Gabolde in thinking that the child, shielded by fans and attended ... more
              • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Thu Sep 1 08:03
                I wrote: "I don't think the name "Smenkhkare" ever appears in KV62. I will have to confirm. Regardless, there is still KV55, whose earliest door seals bear the name of Tutankhamun--so in his reign."... more
                • re: the age of kv55Marianne Luban, Thu Sep 1 09:34
                  Anything that can be known about any sequins from KV62 can be found on page 60 of Reeves' "After Tutankhamun". Interesting chapter, but still nothing verifying Smenkhkare on those sequins.... more
                  • Pharaohs and revisionsJaime O, Thu Sep 1 10:08
                    Hi Marianne, "I doubt those would have been portrayed as being so important--fans and all. And why kill off that baby? Just because Nefertiti can have been its mother? " Because we know nothing of... more
                    • re: the age of kv55Jaime O, Thu Sep 1 10:18
                      Marianne, I was already writing my reply when you posted your 17027 and 17028. Thank you for your further comments. However, I still can't see why Smenkhkare can't be Tutankhamun's father, even if he ... more
            • Yet another correctionJaime O, Wed Aug 31 12:59
              "c) AFAIK, the coffin is considered to have been reused from a female to fit Akhenaten" I meant to say "a male' instead of 'Akhenaten' Regards, Jaime
          • CorrectionMarianne Luban, Wed Aug 31 10:10
            I should certainly have written "However, I do not believe that TUTANKHAMUN was born to Nefertiti until after Year 12."
        • A small noteJaime O, Tue Aug 30 16:06
          Marianne, you also asked: "If he married Meritaten around Year 12 of Akhenaten, then when was Meritaten the wife of her own father, since she was probably less than 12 in Year 12?" In my scheme, she... more
    • re: the age of kv55Kim Sargerson, Mon Aug 29 23:23
      Hello Rich Thank you for posting these quotations. Add two more to the "young" camp - Dr Brenda Baker (2010) and Dr Eugene Strouhal (2010 based on an examination in 1998). All the pathology... more
    • re: 500 gold sheets foundRich McQuillen, Mon Aug 29 21:55
      Hopefully this new ongoing study comes up with some new evidence to add to this debate. Forgotton box may hold the key to Egypts pharaoh without a face... more
      • Re: re: 500 gold sheets foundJoe Baker, Tue Aug 30 04:06
        Hi Rich You quoted from a website In it were 500 scrunched-up gold sheets, the remains of a skull and an old note scribbled in French with the date the tomb was found. ... The note simply states... more
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