Anonymous
Re: Pinudjem I and Masaharta
Fri Dec 2, 2016 10:04
112.198.72.79

My question relates to the year date not the identity of the HP. I will rephrase. Unless these HPs were trying to be misunderstood they had a default assumption they expected readers of their linens, at all periods future, would automatically make with respect to the owner of the year.

Normally, anonymous years occur in registers or court cases. The first few lines on the recto had the King's name in the first date but all succeeding dates are anonymous unless a change of ruler takes place. The problem is the first lines are not always preserved. So it looks like a string of nameless years but its not. The first date had the king's name and readers of the document are supposed to mentally ditto the rest.

Since the linens are not the same as these anonymous years, how did HPs expect others to know whose year they were referring to? The dates aren't there for decoration but for archival like purposes.

Regards
Tory

  • Re: Pinudjem I and MasahartaJaime O, Fri Dec 2 06:51
    Hi Tory, I appreciate your reply to this thread. "An anonymous year date with the mention of a king within the very same date formula is technically not anonymous. The Egyptians were not ignorant.... more
    • Re: Pinudjem I and Masaharta — Anonymous, Fri Dec 2 10:04
      • Re: Pinudjem I and MasahartaJaime O, Sat Dec 3 07:50
        Hi Tory, thank you for the reply. "My question relates to the year date not the identity of the HP." My point is this: 'Menkheperre son of King Pinudjem' is an epithet, in no way related to the date. ... more
        • Re: Pinudjem I and MasahartaTory, Thu Dec 8 23:13
          Jaime: "My point is this: 'Menkheperre son of king Pinudjem' is an epithet, in no way related to the date." Actually "son of X" is a patronymic not an epithet. Epithets can be earned, acquired, and... more
          • Re: Pinudjem I and MasahartaJaime O, Sun Dec 11 17:33
            Hi Tory, thank you for the reply. "Actually "son of X" is a patronymic not an epithet. Epithets can be earned, acquired, and taken away. Patronymics cannot." Yes. you're right. By 'epithet' I had an... more
            • HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyTory, Fri Dec 16 07:13
              Jaime: Thanks for bringing the Prada paper on tabs, mummy braces, and pendants from the Bab el-Gasus cache reproduced in Černżís notebooks to the forumís attention. Those who have had time to go ... more
              • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyJaime O, Fri Dec 16 18:14
                Hi Tory, I appreciate your further comments. "Those who have had time to go through it have to be struck, as I was, over the number of items belonging to "HPA Pinudjem son of KING PSUSENNES... more
                • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyTory, Sat Dec 17 00:21
                  Hi Jamie: To be honest, although I greatly respect Thijs I have not read all of his papers. I do not agree with him, and others, that the one explict text linking the first year of the wHm-mswt to a... more
                  • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyJaime O, Mon Dec 19 16:17
                    Hi Tory, I appreciate your reply. "To be honest, although I greatly respect Thijs I have not read all of his papers. I do not agree with him, and others, that the one explict text linking the first... more
                    • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyTory, Tue Dec 20 11:21
                      Hi Jamie: Iím afraid I canít comment on Adís theory to separate king Pinudjem from HPA Pinudjem I until Iíve read his views. But I certainly do not put much stock in ď12 kings of DiospolisĒ for the... more
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