Tory
Re: Pinudjem I and Masaharta
Thu Dec 8, 2016 23:13
112.198.69.57

Jaime:

"My point is this: 'Menkheperre son of king Pinudjem' is an epithet, in no way related to the date."

Actually "son of X" is a patronymic not an epithet. Epithets can be earned, acquired, and taken away. Patronymics cannot. Second, everything stated in a dated inscription is related to the date in some way. Third, anonymous year dates don't suddenly pop out of thin air in Egypt after the death of Ramesses XI. There are anonymous years of Ramesses II and Ramesses IX and virtually every king in between. Nothing strange or out of the ordinary for an HP to date a linen with an anonymous year. What would be strange is if he did not operate from a default assumption, one where he expected anyone reading his texts to know right away who owns the anonymous year.

You said these men were not ignorant. Indeed they were not; but the conclusions of modern scholarship can sometimes make them look that way. Can there be such a thing as a useful anonymous year in Egypt if there is no way to determine from the text who owns the year? It is the equivalent of someone writing a date of "December" in an important document. The reader logically asks: December what and when? Since the author is not around for questioning the only answer is: Good luck. No sophisticated society operates like that.

I gave the example of diaries, registers, and court proceedings which account for 99% of all anonymous year dates in Egypt. Papyrus Abbot is another example. It has anyonmous year dates in it. But we mentally supply the royal name and titles of "Ramesses IX" to these dates because of the full date at the very beginning of the document. All later dates are higher than the first date, reflecting the progression of time. Dockets with anonymous years filed with this one get the same treatment. This was way before Pinudjem son of Piankh even became HP and there was no polarized Egypt under Ramesses IX. The HP's linens must have been archived a similar way, with the first linen to be made under a king's reign having the full date and every other linen made thereafter in the same reign being given an anonymous year as shorthand. Some linens were made, then dated, and then stored in their appropriate place. Others were made, then dated, and then used immediately.

Amenhotep I. His first reburial was in year 6, IV-Peret 7, anonymous, by HP Pinudjem son of HP Piankh. This is a coffin docket not a linen. Directly beneath this is another docket, and this one is dated year 16, IV-Peret 11, by HP Masaharta son of KING Pinudjem. It records the second reburial of Amenhotep I. The treasurer Pineherfer from year 6 has been succeeded by Penamon by year 16. The royal mummy inside the coffin was re-wrapped in the linen dated year 8 OF KING PINUDJEM who orders Osiris-status be given to Amenhotep I.

The sequence is clear:

1. The 1st reburial, docket year 6 (anonymous) by HP Pinudjem;
2. re-wrapping, linen year 8 of king Pinudjem;
3. The 2nd reburial, docket year 16 (anonymous) by HP Masarhata son of king Pinudjem.

The first docket dated by HP Pinudjem had the full date with name of reigning king. This one from year 6 is dated by year of the same king HP Pinudjem served (only Herihor is an option since nothing links HP Pinudjem to king Smendes, whereas we know HP Pinudjem either inherited his office directly from his father who never became king, or from Herihor who did become king).

The year 8 linen has a full date, so it was presumably the very first linen made during the reign of king Pinudjem.

The year 16 is owned by the king that HP Masarhata served. His father became king. The default assumption here is obvious. This is year 16 of his father's reign and this docket was put on the coffin 8 years after the royal mummy inside was re-wrapped in year 8.

Regards
Tory

  • Re: Pinudjem I and MasahartaJaime O, Sat Dec 3 07:50
    Hi Tory, thank you for the reply. "My question relates to the year date not the identity of the HP." My point is this: 'Menkheperre son of King Pinudjem' is an epithet, in no way related to the date. ... more
    • Re: Pinudjem I and Masaharta — Tory, Thu Dec 8 23:13
      • Re: Pinudjem I and MasahartaJaime O, Sun Dec 11 17:33
        Hi Tory, thank you for the reply. "Actually "son of X" is a patronymic not an epithet. Epithets can be earned, acquired, and taken away. Patronymics cannot." Yes. you're right. By 'epithet' I had an... more
        • HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyTory, Fri Dec 16 07:13
          Jaime: Thanks for bringing the Prada paper on tabs, mummy braces, and pendants from the Bab el-Gasus cache reproduced in Černżís notebooks to the forumís attention. Those who have had time to go ... more
          • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyJaime O, Fri Dec 16 18:14
            Hi Tory, I appreciate your further comments. "Those who have had time to go through it have to be struck, as I was, over the number of items belonging to "HPA Pinudjem son of KING PSUSENNES... more
            • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyTory, Sat Dec 17 00:21
              Hi Jamie: To be honest, although I greatly respect Thijs I have not read all of his papers. I do not agree with him, and others, that the one explict text linking the first year of the wHm-mswt to a... more
              • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyJaime O, Mon Dec 19 16:17
                Hi Tory, I appreciate your reply. "To be honest, although I greatly respect Thijs I have not read all of his papers. I do not agree with him, and others, that the one explict text linking the first... more
                • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyTory, Tue Dec 20 11:21
                  Hi Jamie: Iím afraid I canít comment on Adís theory to separate king Pinudjem from HPA Pinudjem I until Iíve read his views. But I certainly do not put much stock in ď12 kings of DiospolisĒ for the... more
                  • Re: HPAs and 21st dynasty chronologyJaime O, Wed Dec 21 16:03
                    Hi Tory I appreciate your further comments. " Iím afraid I canít comment on Adís theory to separate king Pinudjem from HPA Pinudjem I until Iíve read his views. " I haven't read all, just a few,... more
                    • ΣέσογχωσιςTory, Wed Dec 21 18:21
                      Hi Jamie: Σέσογχωσις (Sesonchosis) is the Libyan name Shoshenq. So your question avoids the obvious one which is why is the name Senusret I deleted... more
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