Kim Sargerson
Re: Sesonchosis
Sun Jan 8, 2017 12:46
86.144.42.221

Hi Jime, Tory

In post 16339 on 7/4/2016 Tory wrote
"I argue Taharqa became a real king of Kush when his father died, but king in the Kushite definition and more or less "chieftain" from the Egyptian perspective. The Kushites were like the early Egyptians and did not use regnal years it seems."
By arguing for a regnal year of Taharqa as king of Kush, Tory is negating his previous position.

The arguments for a reversal of the traditional order of Shabaka - Shabataka were ably set out by Joe in post 9911 on 23/2/2010. These arguments
(a) make sense of the Africanus numbers (8, 14) for the 2 kings
(b) make better sense of the sequence of God's Wives
(c) mean that Taharqa first came to Egypt c707/704 under king Shabataka. Maybe he never left, maybe he returned home and was summoned again by Shabaka. If there were two occasions, he is aged 20 on the second occasion, and this is when he took leave of his mother and did not see her again for many years. Kawa IV is relatively unambiguous (the king is Shabataka, and Taharqa is a "king's brother"). Kawa V is less clear - Taharqa's relationship to the king is not stated, nor is he named.

My position on the "3 kings 25 years" is that the omission of the names is due to the fact that they are simple variants on a name or names already given (that is, Sheshonq, or Osorkon, or both). It so happens that the group of barely attested kings who might be successors of Osorkon I are all called Sheshonq (Heqakheperre, Maatkheperre, Usermaatre Setepenamun, Hedjkheperre the second...).

Tory's solution of multiple prenomina for at least two kings is surely a last resort, if the data cannot be resolved in any other way, since there is no compelling reason (e.g. attestation by the same non-royal individual of the nomen, with different prenomina, at different dates) to associate these prenomina in the first place.

On Louvre E3228c: I don't have access to the publication, and could not read it (abnormal hieratic) in any case. How are the regnal years written - how do we know to which kings they belong?

On lunar eclipses - these are so frequent that a chronology based on them requires several points of comparison, not just one. And why would an eclipse visible in Assyria be relevant to TPIII at Damascus? How many further lunar eclipses occurred between 732 and 707?

On the Greek Papyrus Leipzig Inv. 590 (which I call the "World Chronology" after the title of the publication): this evidences a number of Greek variations on the royal names, notably:
Psibkhaemne: Amompsanes, Psonsames, Psossameos
Sheshonq: Sesyncheis, Sesonches
Osorkon: Ouserthos, Ousorthos, Ouorthos

as well as a completely different take on Dynasties 22-24, with no Takelot or Pedubast and kings called Psibkhaemne and Nesbanebdjedet down to the end. This document is dated the first quarter of the second century AD and clearly presents two different versions of the period from Smendes to Sebenchos, These lists clearly derive from a non-"Manethonic" original, and (in documentary form) are older than our copy of Africanus, who is probably about a century later, as his "world chronicle" went up to at least 217 AD.

Regards

Kim

  • Re: SesonchosisJaime O, Sat Jan 7 18:41
    Hi Tory, thank you for the reply. "If he is not Shoshenq III then there are no monuments, no door jambs, no lintels, no walls, no temples, no priestly annals, no donation stelae, no geneaologies, no... more
    • Re: Sesonchosis — Kim Sargerson, Sun Jan 8 12:46
    • Re: SesonchosisRobert P. Killian, Sun Jan 8 09:15
      Jaime, Tory and Kim, Question,---was 732BC, the 13th year of the Assyrian King Tiglath-Pileser III? Question,---was 732BC, the death year of Retzin, King of Damascus? Question,---was 732BC, the death ... more
      • Re: SesonchosisJaime O, Sun Jan 8 16:10
        Hi Bob, thank you for your questions. Allow me to respond for myself. A) 732 BCE was the 13th year of Tiglath-Pileser III's reign. It is not my belief that any dates lower that 911 BCE (Adad-Nirari... more
        • Re SesonchosisRobert P. Killian, Mon Jan 9 00:39
          Hi Jaime O Thanks for answering my list of questions. A) 732 BCE, was 13th year of Tiglath-Pileser III's reign. B) Retzin of Damascus died in 732 BCE. Did Pekah die too? I do have 701 BCE, for... more
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