Jaime O
A correction
Wed Feb 1, 2017 16:36
95.95.208.52

Dear Tory,

I feel the need to make a correction.

I wrote: " - Menkheperre, dies aged 62;"

Actually, on Post 17263 (last time you updated us on your dates for individuals of early 21st Dynasty), you have Menkheperre dying aged c65. I thought I might as well include Pinudjem I and Osorkon B here. So:

- Pinudjem I, dies aged c77
- Menkheperre, dies aged c65
- Pinudjem III, dies aged c59
- Psusennes II, dies aged c79
- (Maatkare dies before becoming queen)
- Shoshenq II/C, dies aged c67
- Osorkon I, dies aged c61
- Takelot I/II, dies aged c68
- Osorkon B, dies aged +90
Average age of death: minimum 70,7 years old = 71. Maatkare is not included because we can't know for sure when she died, but given that she is never mentioned by her son or anyone else as King's Wife, she must have bear Shoshenq C and died before Osorkon the Elder came to the throne (945 in your model, although Shoshenq C is born in c940).

Pinudjem I should also be included in the generational count I tried to figure out for your model from Osorkon II below. Numbers above Osorkon I are yours, not mine (with the exception of Maatkare, which can be arguably presumed to be midpoint between Psusennes II and Shoshenq C). So:

- Pinudjem I, born c1089
- Menkheperre, born c1069
- Pinudjem III, born c1044
- Psusennes II, born c976
- Maatkare B, born c958
- Shoshenq II/C, born c940
- Osorkon I, born c920
- Takelot I/II, born c900
- Osorkon II, born c868
- Shoshenq D, born c852
- Takelot B, born c834
- Pediese, born c816
- Peftjauawybast, born c798
13 generations, 291 years from birth of Pinudjem I to the birth of Peftjauawybast. Average age per generation: 24,2 years = 24 years per generation. This is sort of the maternal lineage, as a model like yours connects Shoshenq II and his descendants to the Tanite kings and Theban pontiffs via maternal lineage. I'm interest in knowing your numbers for these individuals.

Honest regards,
Jaime

  • Re: Kushite ChronologyJaime O, Wed Feb 1 12:52
    Dear Tory, I wrote: "I no longer assume the existence or need of an earlier Usermaatre Shoshenq, as long as Shoshenq III and Osorkon II overlap." You replied: "Noted." But he we need to be cautious.... more
    • A correction — Jaime O, Wed Feb 1 16:36
      • Libyans and KushitesKim Sargerson, Thu Feb 2 14:29
        Until Tory returns... "we have to consider the fact that Osorkon II had adult great-grandchildren by Year 28 of Shoshenq III." This is indeed the problem (and probably the next generation adult too,... more
        • Re: Libyans and KushitesJaime O, Fri Feb 3 07:42
          Dear Kim, thank you for the reply. I fear I did not responded the last time you replied to a post of mine, which happened because posts started to accumulate and time was lacking. My apologies. "... more
          • Re: Libyans and KushitesKim Sargerson, Fri Feb 3 11:39
            Hi Jaime "the fact that Osorkon II had a grandson named Takelot (B) might suggest the namesake king was alive to see the birth of the third generation after his." I agree, in fact have been arguing... more
            • Re: Libyans and KushitesTory, Tue Feb 7 03:09
              Hi Kim, Jaime: Sorry for the delay. When the wife loses her patience with ancient chronology I cannot go near a history book or even a computer keyboard for several days. Here are my Egyptian dates... more
              • Re: Libyans and KushitesTory, Tue Feb 7 03:11
                Kim wrote: On the Apis of 26 Taharqa: Numerically, you can make this work (although in accepting the EKL reign length of 49, you reject the detail of his immediate predecessors, a queen for 10 years... more
                • Re: Libyans and KushitesTory, Tue Feb 7 03:12
                  Kim wrote: Ok. Does this now mean that you have an “undated” Apis bull between 2 Shabaka and 14 Taharqa, which are separated by 32-33 years? Is the “year 4” docket doing its duty in everyone's theory ... more
                  • Re: Libyans and KushitesKim Sargerson, Mon Feb 20 14:31
                    Hi Tory I have now had a chance to go through your massive and detailed presentation. First, the minor corrections that I have picked up on, that you might want to incorporate in case they lead to... more
                    • Re: Libyans and KushitesTory, Tue Feb 21 09:21
                      Hi Kim, On the members of Dynasty 21: I am certain your Painedjem II is a phantom created by a miswriting of a single bandage. If it is not, then he must be moved earlier in date, as his father is... more
                    • Re: Libyans and KushitesTory, Tue Feb 21 03:24
                      Hi Kim Thank you for your reply and these minor corrections to my Saite chronology. I was in bit of a rush. As I said, my wife uses a stop watch every time I sit down at the computer to do historical ... more
                  • Re: Libyans and KushitesKim Sargerson, Mon Feb 13 11:39
                    Hi Tory Ian Mladjov (once a regular contributor to this forum) has an article in Birmingham Egyptlogy journal, which can be downloaded free here... more
                    • Re: Libyans and KushitesTory, Wed Feb 15 20:48
                      Hi Kim I will have to look at Ian's paper, but since it appears to be a criticism of Thijs' work I don't know how much it will shed any new light on what we already know. "It was not a calendar in... more
                  • Addendum: a mangled Saite DistanzangabeTory, Tue Feb 7 08:57
                    The stela Tawfik discovered and published by Handoussa states that the priest Psamtek was born in Year 1 of Nekau II, III-smw 1, and that he died in Year 27, IV-3kt 28. His lifespan is given as 65... more
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