FB
Ramesses XII
Sun Feb 26, 2017 13:32
184.65.150.166

Ian is talking about an entirely new Ramesside king from the 20th Dynasty named Usermaatre Heqawaset/Heqawese Ramesses Mereramun. He makes it clear that this king is not Siptah or Ramesses II since Siptah did not use the name Ramesses in his titulary and Ramesses II never used the Amun affiliated form of mereramun in his titulary. (always meryamun--even in his Year 1 Silsila stela). After Year 1, Ramesses II was Usermaatre Setepenre.

Only 3 Dynasty 20 kings used mereramun unlike the more common meryamun: Setnakht, Ramesses IX and XI. Since the documentation for the 20th dynasty is exceptionally clear up until Ramesses XI when Deir el Medina village was abandoned, this person is likely a new king who ruled at the end of Dynasty 20 but was explicitly or implicitly ignored by Herihor and Smendes...though they used his year dates. This is the essence of Ian's idea and would solve the problem in Jansen Winkeln's proposal that Herihor succeeded Piankh as HP that has High Priests of Amun assuming regnal years even before they proclaimed themselves king. The Year 5 Wenamun Report and Year 6 Herihor mummy graffiti can then be assigned to his reign.

This new Ramesside king could then be a shortlived ephemeral ruler like Ramesses V or VIII--who had the good fortune to be attested in the historical record. Ian's paper covered most of the bases.

  • re:Ramesses XII?Marianne Luban, Wed Feb 22 10:29
    Tory wrote: "I will read your paper. But it seems Ian is talking about a completely new king, whereas you are suggesting a simple renumbering of RXI to XII. That leaves us back at square one in terms ... more
    • Ramesses XII — FB, Sun Feb 26 13:32
      • re: Ramesses XIIMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 26 18:33
        FB [whoever?] wrote: "Ian is talking about an entirely new Ramesside king from the 20th Dynasty named Usermaatre Heqawaset/Heqawese Ramesses Mereramun." Ian who? The first post in this thread was... more
      • Re: Ramesses XIIFB, Sun Feb 26 17:36
        PS: The epithet Mereramun was never used by Ramesses II or Ramesses III in their formal inscriptions. They used Meryamun. Therefore, they are eliminated as the Wadi Hammamat king. The identification... more
        • Re: Ramesses XIITory, Sun Feb 26 18:28
          Smendes who had a 26 year reign in Dynasty 21 is attested only twice in Upper Egypt at Ed-Dibabiya What is the proof Smendes reigned so long? I'm not against new rabbits in theory, but if correcting... more
          • Re: Ramesses XIIFB, Sun Feb 26 19:30
            To Ms Luban, The Ian mentioned here is Ian Mladjov. He published his 2017 paper here: http://birminghamegyptology.co.uk/journal/ and you would know this if you are on EEF. Manetho gives Smendes 26... more
            • Re: Ramesses XIIMarianne Luban, Mon Feb 27 09:05
              FB wrote: "To Ms Luban, The Ian mentioned here is Ian Mladjov. He published his 2017 paper here: http://birminghamegyptology.co.uk/journal/ and you would know this if you are on EEF." Is it somehow... more
            • egyptological nonsenseTory, Mon Feb 27 00:16
              Manetho gives Smendes 26 years of reign and this is supported by the Year 25 date on the Banishment Stela since we have no evidence the Theban High Priests counted their years even when they... more
            • Re: Ramesses XIITory, Sun Feb 26 21:08
              There is no year 16 document where Pinudjem I "proclaims himself king." This is incorrect and misleading. There is a year 16 (anonymous) record when Masaharta was HPA. It says nothing about his royal ... more
              • Dear Tory, I'm afraid that this will be my last post on this Forum. This Forum is not what it was when I participated on it 11-14 years ago. Yes there is clear evidence that Pinedjem was a simple HP... more
                • I'm afraid that this will be my last post on this Forum. This Forum is not what it was when I participated on it 11-14 years ago. Yes there is clear evidence that Pinedjem was a simple HP in Year 15... more
            • Re: Ramesses XIIFB, Sun Feb 26 19:48
              As an aside, if 'king' Pinedjem I in Thebes really counted his years and we know he proclaimed himself king in Year 16 of an anonymous ruler's reign (likely Smendes) then why is the Banishment stela... more
              • Re: Ramesses XIITory, Sun Feb 26 21:01
                Where does the Banishment Stele mention anyone named king Smendes? The only king named anywhere in this record is king Pinudjem, father of HPA Menkheperre. There is not the slightest recognition of... more
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