Marianne Luban
Dahamunza Again
Sat Jul 8, 2017 09:58
97.126.142.155

"[The Egyptians] were afraid. And since, in addition, their lord Nibhururiya had died, therefore the queen of Egypt, who was Dakhamunzu, sent a messenger to [Suppiluliuma]."

That the name "Nibhururiya" fits best to Nebkheperure was established long ago, although a few have disagreed. When her young husband died, Queen Ankhesenamun was the actual heir to the throne for all practical purposes, but she was swiftly pushed aside by some powerful men. Tutankhamun's advisor, At, made himself a coregent with the pharaoh before his master was even dead. Or perhaps Tut even appointed him, but I suspect the other scenario. At any rate, this is how At managed to steal a march on Horemheb, the general. It is no work of propaganda at all that Ay is shown wearing a crown while he performs the opening of the mouth ritual upon the mummy of Tutankhamun. He really was already a king. Where there are coregents depicted together or their cartouches are in tandem, one of them is usually styled "nb irt xt" [lord of the ritual] and that is present in KV62.

Ay did not marry Ankhesenamun at all. His name and hers being together on the faience Newberry Ring does not denote a marriage any more than the name of Thutmose I being coupled with that of Queen Ahmose-Nefertari does. I feel it was a matter of a commoner demonstrating that he was a relative of a royal lady, a queen, in both cases. These women meant something, were certainly more important than those men who sought to elevate themselves by association. But, during the seventy-some days of the mummification of Tutankhamun, it would appear that Ankhesenamun, while at Memphis, wrote those letters to the Hittite ruler asking for a prince. She rejected Ay as pharaoh, obviously. Ankhesenamun was young but had no future with Ay, who already had a wife, whom he intended to make his queen. So Ankhesenamun formulated her own plans, creating a situation where she would remain the first lady of the land. That is my scenario and I think it entirely possible that her envoy, Hani, betrayed her intentions to Ay. So we hear no more about Ankhesenamun.

The next king, Horemheb, was no relation to Ankhesenamun [at least not a near relative] and wanted nothing to do with her, probably considered her a great traitor. That this was his feeling is demonstrated in a paper by Nozomu Kawai, below. It was not, probably, that Horemheb cared that the queen had betrayed Ay--but had betrayed Egypt by sending for a Hittite to sit beside her on the throne. What for, when there where Egyptian men like himself who could do the job?

When Horemheb came to usurp the Restoration Stela of Tutankhamun, he did not make the adjustment of changing Ankhesenamun into his own wife there but eradicated the figure of the queen entirely. [This Restoration Stela could not have been carved at the very beginning of Tut's reign, anyway, as he was still Tutankhaten then.] And that is not the only damnatio of this queen as Kawai points out. My theory is that Horemheb despised them all. I think he had a certain sympathy for Tutankhamun, given his sad end, and allowed him to keep all his treasure. But I wouldn't be surprised if Horemheb kicked the entire progeny of Amumhotep III out of Egypt, males and females--all that remained.

https://www.academia.edu/395389/Ay_versus_Horemheb_The_Political_Situation_in_the_Late_Eighteenth_Dynasty_Revisited

    • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Sat Jul 8 22:59
      Hi Marianne "[The Egyptians] were afraid. And since, in addition, their lord Nibhururiya had died, therefore the queen of Egypt, who was Dakhamunzu, sent a messenger to [Suppiluliuma]." That the name ... more
      • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 08:06
        Joe wrote: "I was one of those who disagreed, as a perusal of this forum will show. Maybe several years ago this statement was valid but today the reverse is rapidly taking hold, particular amongst... more
        • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Tue Jul 11 06:55
          Hi Marianne "Why shouldn't Mursili have written to Horemheb? Obviously, Horemheb was still a powerful person. Can you prove that Ay did not reign for seven years or more? I can be shaken by facts but ... more
          • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 09:37
            Hi Joe. You wrote: "I assume from your statement that (given your position that Suppiluliuma was still ruling when Tutankhamun died), you have Ay ruling some 7 or more years and that Mursili could... more
            • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Thu Jul 13 07:53
              Hi Marianne As for the name of the king who had died in the Dahamunza affair--it is a sure thing that the element "nb" was vocalized as "nib". First off let me point out that all the examples you... more
              • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Thu Jul 13 09:11
                Joe wrote: "First off let me point out that all the examples you give for “nb” and “nfr” were written in Akkadian (including the ones Naptera = Nefertari sent to Ḫattuša. However this is not... more
                • Re: Dahamunza AgainAnonymous, Thu Jul 13 09:59
                  Look at Tory's old post: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=177754;article=12412;search_term = There doesn't seem to be so much consistency in how the prenomen of Amunhotep III was written ... more
                  • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Thu Jul 13 23:23
                    I wrote: Look at Tory's old post: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=177754;article=12412;search_term = There doesn't seem to be so much consistency in how the prenomen of Amunhotep III... more
            • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 10:01
              Ach--I meant not just from Tell ed-Daba--not Amarna.
              • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 10:14
                Wait a minute--how do you get six years for Arnuwanda II, who came before Mursili II? I don't recall anyone having him as ruler for more than a year.
                • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 10:24
                  Forget Arnuwanda II. What makes you think Suppiluliuma I reigned for six more years after the Dahamunza affair?
                  • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Wed Jul 12 08:48
                    Hi Marianne Forget Arnuwanda II. What makes you think Suppiluliuma I reigned for six more years after the Dahamunza affair? Actually it is the combined reigns of Suppiluliuma (after the... more
        • Re: Dahamunza AgainJaime O, Mon Jul 10 16:03
          Hi all, Miller has argued that Mursilis II held correspondence with Horemhab before he became Pharaoh. Miller equates Arma’a with Horemhab, thus establishing that the latter didn’t ascend to the... more
          • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Tue Jul 11 06:48
            Hi Jaime I am not specialized on linguistics, so I must side with those (like Marianne) who say that Nibhururyia is a better fit for Nebkheperure. This, nevertheless, does not invalidate Miller’s... more
            • Re: Dahamunza AgainJaime O, Thu Aug 3 09:24
              Hi Joe, Thank you for the reply. I apologize for not replying promptly. Real life got in the way. “There can be no letters sent to/by Tutankhamun as the Amarna archive had already been closed when... more
        • Some MathMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 12:43
          Here's some math regarding all this. I'm not quite sure how others have figured that the tenth year of the reign of King Mursili of Hatti could have fallen on 1312 or 1308 BCE so that he could have... more
          • Re: Some MathJoe Baker, Tue Jul 11 07:08
            Hi Marianne By the way the annals for year 10 of Mursili do not mention a solar omen of the Sun god. It is only mentioned in KUB 14.4 (CTH 70), a text which outlined the legal case for the removal of ... more
          • re: Some MathMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 15:37
            And, once again, keep in mind that the radiocarbon results favor the high chronology--with the New Kingdom possibly starting as early as 1570 BCE.
            • re: Some MathMarianne Luban, Thu Jul 13 08:19
              These low chronologies, based on assumed solar eclipses, do not work because, earlier in the era of Dynasty 18, there are certain texts that require a specific seasonal event. In Year 22, Thutmose... more
            • Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Mon Jul 10 08:38
              I have looked into this a bit more. Here's a good overview: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+solar+omen+of+Mursili+II.+(Brief+Communications).-a083939817
              • Mursili's Omen of the SumRobert P. Killian, Tue Jul 11 03:42
                Here's another good overview of Mursili II timeline. www.exegenesis.com Just click on 1st Vol. in the blue box at left-hand-side of Home Page and scroll-down to Page 26 to view the 24 June 1312BC,... more
                • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 17:41
                  What in the world do you mean by this? "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the book of Jasher."
                  • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunRobert P. Killian, Wed Jul 12 02:39
                    What I mean by saying: "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the Book of Jasher". Is,---that these newly computed... more
                • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 11:51
                  Arinniti was a sun goddess to whom, it is claimed Mursili II was particularly devoted. She is represented in this relief:... more
                  • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 12:22
                    And see here about Hittites and omens and oracles. For all we know, this whole thing may be about nothing more than a cult statue being asked a question. The Egyptians did this and, evidently, so did ... more
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