Marianne Luban
Re: Dahamunza Again
Sun Jul 9, 2017 08:06
97.126.142.155

Joe wrote:

"I was one of those who disagreed, as a perusal of this forum will show. Maybe several years ago this statement was valid but today the reverse is rapidly taking hold, particular amongst scholars who study the whole range of contemporary Middle East chronology. Even Nozomu Kawai, the author you give the link to, implicitly has Akhenaten as “Nibhururiya”. On page 279 he says he agrees with Miller’s interpretation of Hittite text KUB 19.15+KBo 50.24 as a letter from Mursili, the Hittite king, around his 7th regnal year, to Horemheb, the Egyptian Generalissimo, around the end of Tutankhamun’s reign and the beginning of Ay’s reign. This does not agree with your idea that the Daḫamunzu incident, which occurred during the reign of Suppiluliuma, took place around this time."

I fail to see why. Why shouldn't Mursili have written to Horemheb? Obviously, Horemheb was still a powerful person. Can you prove that Ay did not reign for seven years or more? I can be shaken by facts but not by appeal to consensus. “Nibhururiya” still fits best to Tutankhamun and nothing can change that. Akhenaten had a son, perhaps even more than one by different women. You say you are convinced that KV55 is Akhenaten [and you would be right there]. But you know the DNA says Tutankhamun is his son. I find it unlikely that a widow of Akhenaten as Dahamunza would try to claim little Tutankhaten did not exist.

  • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Sat Jul 8 22:59
    Hi Marianne "[The Egyptians] were afraid. And since, in addition, their lord Nibhururiya had died, therefore the queen of Egypt, who was Dakhamunzu, sent a messenger to [Suppiluliuma]." That the name ... more
    • Re: Dahamunza Again — Marianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 08:06
      • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Tue Jul 11 06:55
        Hi Marianne "Why shouldn't Mursili have written to Horemheb? Obviously, Horemheb was still a powerful person. Can you prove that Ay did not reign for seven years or more? I can be shaken by facts but ... more
        • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 09:37
          Hi Joe. You wrote: "I assume from your statement that (given your position that Suppiluliuma was still ruling when Tutankhamun died), you have Ay ruling some 7 or more years and that Mursili could... more
          • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Thu Jul 13 07:53
            Hi Marianne As for the name of the king who had died in the Dahamunza affair--it is a sure thing that the element "nb" was vocalized as "nib". First off let me point out that all the examples you... more
            • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Thu Jul 13 09:11
              Joe wrote: "First off let me point out that all the examples you give for “nb” and “nfr” were written in Akkadian (including the ones Naptera = Nefertari sent to Ḫattuša. However this is not... more
              • Re: Dahamunza AgainAnonymous, Thu Jul 13 09:59
                Look at Tory's old post: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=177754;article=12412;search_term = There doesn't seem to be so much consistency in how the prenomen of Amunhotep III was written ... more
                • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Thu Jul 13 23:23
                  I wrote: Look at Tory's old post: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=177754;article=12412;search_term = There doesn't seem to be so much consistency in how the prenomen of Amunhotep III... more
                  • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Sat Jul 15 07:42
                    Hi Marianne Nibḫurrereya EA 9:1 from Burna-Buriyaš of Karaduniyaš is not Amunhotep III. It is an erroneous writing for the prenomen of Akhenaten, Neferkheperure. So you agree that EA 9 was... more
                    • Re: Dahamunza AgainRobert Killian, Sun Jul 30 00:24
                      Hi Marianne & Joe Baker, I too have, exactly like Joe,---1457BCE, for 22 year Thutmose III. I have 1792BCE, minus 42 years to 1750BCE, for Hammuribi I. If this proves to be true,---"Middle... more
                    • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 16 09:38
                      I wrote: "Nibḫurrereya EA 9:1 from Burna-Buriyaš of Karaduniyaš is not Amunhotep III. It is an erroneous writing for the prenomen of Akhenaten, Neferkheperure." Joe: "So you agree that EA 9 was ... more
                    • Re: DahmamunzaRobert Killian, Sun Jul 16 00:56
                      Hi Joe & Marianne, I must go with Joe on his 1457BC, 'date' for Thutmose III 22/23. In that year: 2435AM, 1326CJ/BC, +131yrs = 1457BC, 'actual'. In that year, I have 'posted' several other historical ... more
          • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 10:01
            Ach--I meant not just from Tell ed-Daba--not Amarna.
            • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 10:14
              Wait a minute--how do you get six years for Arnuwanda II, who came before Mursili II? I don't recall anyone having him as ruler for more than a year.
              • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 10:24
                Forget Arnuwanda II. What makes you think Suppiluliuma I reigned for six more years after the Dahamunza affair?
                • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Wed Jul 12 08:48
                  Hi Marianne Forget Arnuwanda II. What makes you think Suppiluliuma I reigned for six more years after the Dahamunza affair? Actually it is the combined reigns of Suppiluliuma (after the... more
                  • Re: Dahamunza AgainMarianne Luban, Wed Jul 12 10:09
                    Joe wrote: "Actually it is the combined reigns of Suppiluliuma (after the Daḫumnzu episode) and Arnuwanda 2.Assuming year A was the year of the Daḫumunzu episode. Year A+1. Zannanza to... more
                    • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Thu Jul 13 08:40
                      Hi Marianne Surely you are aware that other sources maintain that Suppiliuliuma died of the plague quite soon after the Egyptian prisoners came to Egypt--and then Arnuwanda succumbed quickly to the... more
      • Re: Dahamunza AgainJaime O, Mon Jul 10 16:03
        Hi all, Miller has argued that Mursilis II held correspondence with Horemhab before he became Pharaoh. Miller equates Arma’a with Horemhab, thus establishing that the latter didn’t ascend to the... more
        • Re: Dahamunza AgainJoe Baker, Tue Jul 11 06:48
          Hi Jaime I am not specialized on linguistics, so I must side with those (like Marianne) who say that Nibhururyia is a better fit for Nebkheperure. This, nevertheless, does not invalidate Miller’s... more
          • Re: Dahamunza AgainJaime O, Thu Aug 3 09:24
            Hi Joe, Thank you for the reply. I apologize for not replying promptly. Real life got in the way. “There can be no letters sent to/by Tutankhamun as the Amarna archive had already been closed when... more
      • Some MathMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 12:43
        Here's some math regarding all this. I'm not quite sure how others have figured that the tenth year of the reign of King Mursili of Hatti could have fallen on 1312 or 1308 BCE so that he could have... more
        • Re: Some MathJoe Baker, Tue Jul 11 07:08
          Hi Marianne By the way the annals for year 10 of Mursili do not mention a solar omen of the Sun god. It is only mentioned in KUB 14.4 (CTH 70), a text which outlined the legal case for the removal of ... more
        • re: Some MathMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 15:37
          And, once again, keep in mind that the radiocarbon results favor the high chronology--with the New Kingdom possibly starting as early as 1570 BCE.
          • re: Some MathMarianne Luban, Thu Jul 13 08:19
            These low chronologies, based on assumed solar eclipses, do not work because, earlier in the era of Dynasty 18, there are certain texts that require a specific seasonal event. In Year 22, Thutmose... more
          • Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Mon Jul 10 08:38
            I have looked into this a bit more. Here's a good overview: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+solar+omen+of+Mursili+II.+(Brief+Communications).-a083939817
            • Mursili's Omen of the SumRobert P. Killian, Tue Jul 11 03:42
              Here's another good overview of Mursili II timeline. www.exegenesis.com Just click on 1st Vol. in the blue box at left-hand-side of Home Page and scroll-down to Page 26 to view the 24 June 1312BC,... more
              • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 17:41
                What in the world do you mean by this? "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the book of Jasher."
                • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunRobert P. Killian, Wed Jul 12 02:39
                  What I mean by saying: "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the Book of Jasher". Is,---that these newly computed... more
                  • The Book of JasherMarianne Luban, Wed Jul 12 09:39
                    Robert, you wrote: "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the book of Jasher." But when I asked what you meant by... more
                    • The Book of JasherRobert Killian, Thu Jul 13 07:49
                      Marianne Luban, You claim:--- "That's because you do have no way of knowing how accurate anything in this book is..." etc. My response: Then you mention one of the exact sequential timeline sequence... more
                    • The Book of JasherRobert Killian, Wed Jul 12 15:57
                      Just click-on,---www.exegenesis.com and read down to verify that Moses was 18yrs old, ("when he kills the egyptian and flees"), in 148th year of Israel in Egypt. Moses was 27yrs old, (when he begins... more
                  • The Book of JasherMarianne Luban, Wed Jul 12 09:21
                    Robert, you wrote: "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the book of Jasher." But when I asked what you meant by... more
              • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 11:51
                Arinniti was a sun goddess to whom, it is claimed Mursili II was particularly devoted. She is represented in this relief:... more
                • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 12:22
                  And see here about Hittites and omens and oracles. For all we know, this whole thing may be about nothing more than a cult statue being asked a question. The Egyptians did this and, evidently, so did ... more
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