Joe Baker
Re: Some Math
Tue Jul 11, 2017 07:08
121.215.7.74

Hi Marianne

By the way the annals for year 10 of Mursili do not mention a solar omen of the Sun god. It is only mentioned in KUB 14.4 (CTH 70), a text which outlined the legal case for the removal of the Queen from her office. The historical information within it, when compared with the annals, allows the omen of the sun god to have occurred early in year 10 while the king was on on his way to attack Anniya the king of Ḫayaša-Azzi. It is not stated whether the omen was seen by Mursili or even by the Queen, only that the Queen interpreted it as referring to Mursili. (I cannot see how Huber can say it may have occurred before the campaign started). It had no effect on the campaign progress and it was not until Mursili was in Ḫayaša that he learnt the Queen had interpreted an omen of the sun god as being directed against him.

My interpretation would be that it was some local event observed at Ḫattuša and not observed by Mursili. So not an eclipse but maybe instead an atmospheric effect, dust, smoke, clouds, etc. I am reminded of an event in Babylonian Chronicle 17, when in year 7 of a king it is said that on the 26th day of the month (so not a day on which a solar eclipse could occur) that “day to night turned, fire in the heart of heaven”. Of course I am putting this forward because in the Middle Chronology there is no suitable eclipse date. Instead this chronology depends on countless other cross linkages.

I would place year 10 Mursili in 1319 with the campaign getting underway around April. However there is no spring observable eclipse ten years either side of 1319. The one of Julian 24 June 1312, which would accommodate a Low Chronology, is too late in the year. The eclipse of Julian 8 Jan 1340, as favoured by Huber, would be even a stretch for the High Chronology. Besides it is too early for any campaign to have begun. Hence Huber’s weak attempt to suggest it occurred before the campaign - in direct conflict with the text itself.

The radiocarbon data from Tell el-Dabꜥa is disputed. Not so much the radiocarbon dates but rather the chronology of Bietak’s strata classification.

Regards Joe


  • Some MathMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 12:43
    Here's some math regarding all this. I'm not quite sure how others have figured that the tenth year of the reign of King Mursili of Hatti could have fallen on 1312 or 1308 BCE so that he could have... more
    • Re: Some Math — Joe Baker, Tue Jul 11 07:08
    • re: Some MathMarianne Luban, Sun Jul 9 15:37
      And, once again, keep in mind that the radiocarbon results favor the high chronology--with the New Kingdom possibly starting as early as 1570 BCE.
      • re: Some MathMarianne Luban, Thu Jul 13 08:19
        These low chronologies, based on assumed solar eclipses, do not work because, earlier in the era of Dynasty 18, there are certain texts that require a specific seasonal event. In Year 22, Thutmose... more
      • Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Mon Jul 10 08:38
        I have looked into this a bit more. Here's a good overview: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+solar+omen+of+Mursili+II.+(Brief+Communications).-a083939817
        • Mursili's Omen of the SumRobert P. Killian, Tue Jul 11 03:42
          Here's another good overview of Mursili II timeline. www.exegenesis.com Just click on 1st Vol. in the blue box at left-hand-side of Home Page and scroll-down to Page 26 to view the 24 June 1312BC,... more
          • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 17:41
            What in the world do you mean by this? "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the book of Jasher."
            • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunRobert P. Killian, Wed Jul 12 02:39
              What I mean by saying: "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the Book of Jasher". Is,---that these newly computed... more
              • The Book of JasherMarianne Luban, Wed Jul 12 09:39
                Robert, you wrote: "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the book of Jasher." But when I asked what you meant by... more
                • The Book of JasherRobert Killian, Thu Jul 13 07:49
                  Marianne Luban, You claim:--- "That's because you do have no way of knowing how accurate anything in this book is..." etc. My response: Then you mention one of the exact sequential timeline sequence... more
                • The Book of JasherRobert Killian, Wed Jul 12 15:57
                  Just click-on,---www.exegenesis.com and read down to verify that Moses was 18yrs old, ("when he kills the egyptian and flees"), in 148th year of Israel in Egypt. Moses was 27yrs old, (when he begins... more
                  • Re: The Book of JasherAnonymous, Thu Jul 13 08:46
                    Robert wrote: "Moses was 27yrs old, (when he begins 40yr reign in Kush)), in 157th year, at death of Kikanus, king of Kush." In the 55th year of which king of Egypt? "Exodus: Passover at 'midnight'... more
                    • Re: The Book of JasherRobert Killian, Fri Jul 14 01:34
                      To interested ANEC Forum members, In regard to the 5 year 'error' in calculations of the birth 'date' for Abraham by Eusebius, our Father of Biblical History, we must first establish the accurate... more
                    • Re: The Book of JasherRobert Killian, Thu Jul 13 13:43
                      Hi again Marianne, (not too Anonymous, huh,) You wrote: in article 17644. For example "In the 55th year of the reign of Pharoah king of Egypt, reigned Moses in Kush. Moses was 27yrs old when he began ... more
              • The Book of JasherMarianne Luban, Wed Jul 12 09:21
                Robert, you wrote: "These new chronological dates are supported by biblical scripture and also confirmed in the much better documentation of the book of Jasher." But when I asked what you meant by... more
          • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 11:51
            Arinniti was a sun goddess to whom, it is claimed Mursili II was particularly devoted. She is represented in this relief:... more
            • re: Mursili's Omen of the SunMarianne Luban, Tue Jul 11 12:22
              And see here about Hittites and omens and oracles. For all we know, this whole thing may be about nothing more than a cult statue being asked a question. The Egyptians did this and, evidently, so did ... more
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