Joe Baker
Re: Amenhotep II and His Reign
Sat Dec 30, 2017 02:50
121.215.155.48

Hi Marianne

As for the Chronicle of pseudo-Dionysius, which is now called the Zuqnin Chronicle and whose last entry is for 774/5 AD, I am afraid it does not support your argument. Now, I can not find an on-line English version of the first parts of the work. However there is the original Syriac version here
https://archive.org/stream/ChroniconPseudoDionysianumVulgoDictumITextusCSCO91OCR/
and a (modern) Latin translation of it here
https://archive.org/stream/IncertiAuctorisChroniconPseudoDionysianumVulgoDictumIVersioCSCO121OCR/

In the Latin translation the relevant pages for Egyptian history are 16-18. You can see that Pseudo-Dionysius’ source is mainly Eusebius via Jerome by comparing the entries with those of Jerome at
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/jerome_chronicle_02_part1.htm

As for the Artapanus material, it has no real date or connection with the 18th dynasty but since it concerned Moses, pseudo-Dionysius just cut it into chunks and mostly inserted them into the accession year of certain kings in the chronology of Eusebius/Jerome. As can be seen from the following table. Here an Artapanus chunk of events of Moses life (born in 425), up to his flight from Egypt to Midian, are placed in the accession year of Amenophtes (400), and another chunk from Moses’ confrontation with Chencheres to the drowning of the latter are placed in the accession year of Chencheres (490).


ACTUAL KINGS | EUSEBIUS/JEROME | PSEUDO-DIONYSIUS EXTRACTS FROM ARTAPANUS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Abraham born | Abraham born
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 75 Abraham covenant| 75 Abraham covenent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tuthmosis 3 | 390 TUTHMOSIS 9 | 390 THUTMOSIS 9
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amenḥotep 3 | 399 AMENOPHIS 31 | 400 AMENOPHTES 31 Several kings. Palmanothis in Heliopolis
| | Chenephra in Memphis married to Merrhi
| | Merrhi saves Moses and adopts him
| | Moses builds Hermopolis
| | Moses commands war in Ethiopia for 10 years
| | Merrhi dies, Chenephra turns against Moses
| | Chenephra enlists Chananath to kill Moses
| | Moses flees to Arabia
| | Moses marries the daughter of Raguel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 425 Birth of Moses |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Akhenaten Waenre | 430 ORUS 38 years | 430 ORUS 38
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nfr-nfrw-Aten | 468 Moses to desert | 466 Moses to Raguel
= Ankh-ḫprw-Re | ACHENCHERES 12 | 468 ACHENCHERES 12
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tutankḫamun | 480 ATHORIS 9 | 480 ATHURIUS 9
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ḫpr-ḫprw-Re Ay | 489 CHENCHERES 16 | 490 CHENCHERES 16 He struggled against Moses
| | with the aid of Iannis and Mambris
| | He and his host drowned in Red Sea
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 502 Sinai epiphany | 501 Sinai epiphany Moses returns to Egypt
| | Moses fought Pharaoh for 5 years
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 505 Exodus | 506 Exodus
Ay duplicated | ACHERRES 8 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here the era used is (inclusive) years since the birth of Abraham. So 490 in pseudo-Dionysius, is just 490 (inclusive) years after the birth of Abraham. In this year Chencheres began his reign and here pseudo-Dionysius just inserts a chunk of Artapanus material which includes a summary of how he died. However as can be seen from the table Chencheres died by drowning in 505 (506 in pseudo-Dionysius) which was the 430th year since the Abraham covenant which happened in the 75th year of the birth of Abraham. And all this chronological data in pseudo-Dionysius is clearly that of Eusebius/Jerome - there is no additional maths performed by pseudo-Dionysius.

Regards Joe


  • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Thu Dec 28 13:52
    This is what I wrote here in July of 1017 in the "Dahamunza" thread: "I now believe I have solved the problem of why Eusebius, by whose reckoning Moses should have left Egypt in 1510 BCE, perversely... more
    • Re: Amenhotep II and His Reign — Joe Baker, Sat Dec 30 02:50
      • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Dec 31 09:10
        Joe wrote: "Here the era used is (inclusive) years since the birth of Abraham. So 490 in pseudo-Dionysius, is just 490 (inclusive) years after the birth of Abraham. In this year Chencheres began his... more
        • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignJoe Baker, Sat Jan 6 21:15
          Hi Marianne pseudo-Dionysius ... is the first one to say that the Year 490 is when Moses confronted Cencheres This entry does not say Moses confronted Cencheres in 490. The entry says “Year 490. The... more
        • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Dec 31 09:27
          And see Pietersma's book on page 8 as to when Palmanothes and Cenephres were placed. They were Amenhotep I and Thutmose I.... more
          • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Dec 31 10:52
            Here, once again, is the math of Eusebius. According to Eusebius, there are 2044 years from the birth of Abraham to the 15th year of Tiberias Caesar [which is 29 CE]. Abraham born in 2015 BCE.... more
            • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignJoe Baker, Sat Jan 6 21:22
              Hi Marianne In response to your posts, I, for clarity, again give a chart showing the chronology of Eusebius, Pseudo-Dionysius and his excerpts from Artapanos (I add an extra one - via Eusebius [in... more
              • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Jan 7 12:50
                Joe wrote: "In your post of 31 Dec 2017 (post 17794) you said According to Eusebius, there are 2044 years from the birth of Abraham to the 15th year of Tiberias Caesar [which is 29 CE]. Abraham born... more
                • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignJoe Baker, Mon Jan 8 06:51
                  Hi Marianne On the 15th year of Tiberius you said The consensus now is 29 AD for the 15th Year of Tiberias--so I reckon with that. Can you explain how you know how Eusebius counted? It does not... more
                  • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 8 08:07
                    Joe wrote: "However Eusebius did not use the Julian calendar. He used the Syro-Macedonian calendar of Caesarea to fix the start of the year which began in October and he dated years both by Olympiads ... more
                    • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 8 13:35
                      Now this site gives a different take on the "Seleucid reckoning" which, to be honest, I have never known to be viewed like this. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/counting-the-years/ Of... more
                    • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 8 08:35
                      I think Joe probably got his ideas regarding Eusebius and what calendar he used from Burgess--but see Sacha Stern.... more
            • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 1 11:31
              Studying Latin for four years comes in handy once in awhile, so I was able to translate the version of Pseudo-Dionysius from that language to a more or less accurate degree. Here is the relevant... more
              • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignRobert Killian, Wed Jan 3 04:26
                This post, by Marianne, can be verified mathematically. "Suggestion", for integrating most of this information. Year 000 b.Abram 1948AM, 1813CJ/BC,+131yrs=1944BC. ----------------------+420yrs---... more
              • ErrataMarianne Luban, Tue Jan 2 14:31
                I should make some corrections to my previous post. They are: "[*Obviously, Pseudo-Dionysius got all this from Artapanus [via Euseubius] but knew that the story had to do with that same Amenhotep who ... more
    • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Thu Dec 28 15:48
      The interpretation of the words of the lunar date of Thutmose III hangs on this phrase "hrw m Hb n psDntiw r mty"-- meaning "the day the festival of the new moon as usual" in my opinion. Of course,... more
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