Joe Baker
Re: Amenhotep II and His Reign
Sat Jan 6, 2018 21:15
124.178.155.62

Hi Marianne

pseudo-Dionysius ... is the first one to say that the Year 490 is when Moses confronted Cencheres

This entry does not say Moses confronted Cencheres in 490. The entry says “Year 490. The king of Egypt died and Chencheres reigned 16 years. This was he who warred against Moses with the help of Iannes and Mambris the magicians. Moses said about this one: Pharaoh and his army drowned in the Rea Sea”. There is nothing here which says that these events occurred in 490. They were events that occurred during the entire reign of Chencheres and were not confined to just his first year. By the way, note the use of the title Prʿwn (Pharoah). Artapanos does not name the pharaoh who drowned. It was Eusebius who placed the exodus at the end of the reign of Chencheres and thereby implicitly created a synchronism.

Artapanus material definitely has a connection with the 18th Dynasty! Amenhotep I died in the month of Phamenoth, which was named after the commemoration of his passing in that seventh month. "Palmenothes" is just "pA n imnHtp"--the same as "Phamenoth". You tell me where else in Egyptian history there is a king whose name could possibly correspond!

It is well known that the month of Phamenoth derives from p n imn ḥtp (the one of Amenḥotep 1). But why Artapanos would use a month name for a pharaoh (if that is what you think he does with Palmanothes) rather than the actual name of the pharaoh is beyond me. The same form occurs in Greek inscriptions on Amenḥotep 3’s Colossi of Memnon as Phamenoth/Phamenoph and here it is the name of the statues, not his personal name - which does however appear in these same Greek inscriptions as Amenoth.

Pseudo-Dionysius does distinguish Artapanos’ Palmanothes (whom he renders as Plmntwys) from Eusebius’ Amenophis (whom he renders as ʾmnwptys). But other Syrian writers did not distinguish them and wrote Artapanos’ Palmanothes as Amonpathis (Bar Hebraeus) and Amenophnathis (Michael the Syrian, the source for Bar Hebraeus). As for similar names of Egyptian Kings in Greek sources - see Amenḥotep 1 (Amenophis, Amenophthis, Ammenophis, Amophis) Amenḥotep 3 (Amenophis), Merenptah (Amenophis, Amenophath, Ammenophis, Ammenemnes, Ammenemes), Setnakht (Amenophis) and Amenemope (Amenophthis).

Unlike Palmanothes, Amenḥotep 1 ruled as the only king over all Egypt. The land was not then divided amongst many kings, he did not rule from Heliopolis and he was not succeeded by a son-in-law named Chenephres (who previously ruled from Memphis). You suggest that this name is a rendition of the epithet xai nfrw attached to his name - but it was not a unique epithet since xai-mi-Ra was also in use.

But how many kings did later authors know only by one of the epithets attached to his name? Well, I could point to Akhenaten’s unique epithet, Waenre, where there is contemporary attestations of Wʿ-n-Rʿ (Oros) being used by itself, without any other royal name, in many inscriptions and records. Later royal scribes who compiled chronicles and king lists needed to be able to refer to the years that Akhenaten ruled without mentioning his tabooed name but still avoid using common terms like “the criminal”. One way would have been to use an epithet associated with him that was used in naming buildings, etc. But this was an exception. Kings like Tuthmosis1 were never vilified nor were their names ever condemned to damnatio memoriae.

Regards Joe


  • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Dec 31 09:10
    Joe wrote: "Here the era used is (inclusive) years since the birth of Abraham. So 490 in pseudo-Dionysius, is just 490 (inclusive) years after the birth of Abraham. In this year Chencheres began his... more
    • Re: Amenhotep II and His Reign — Joe Baker, Sat Jan 6 21:15
    • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Dec 31 09:27
      And see Pietersma's book on page 8 as to when Palmanothes and Cenephres were placed. They were Amenhotep I and Thutmose I.... more
      • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Dec 31 10:52
        Here, once again, is the math of Eusebius. According to Eusebius, there are 2044 years from the birth of Abraham to the 15th year of Tiberias Caesar [which is 29 CE]. Abraham born in 2015 BCE.... more
        • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignJoe Baker, Sat Jan 6 21:22
          Hi Marianne In response to your posts, I, for clarity, again give a chart showing the chronology of Eusebius, Pseudo-Dionysius and his excerpts from Artapanos (I add an extra one - via Eusebius [in... more
          • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Sun Jan 7 12:50
            Joe wrote: "In your post of 31 Dec 2017 (post 17794) you said According to Eusebius, there are 2044 years from the birth of Abraham to the 15th year of Tiberias Caesar [which is 29 CE]. Abraham born... more
            • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignJoe Baker, Mon Jan 8 06:51
              Hi Marianne On the 15th year of Tiberius you said The consensus now is 29 AD for the 15th Year of Tiberias--so I reckon with that. Can you explain how you know how Eusebius counted? It does not... more
              • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 8 08:07
                Joe wrote: "However Eusebius did not use the Julian calendar. He used the Syro-Macedonian calendar of Caesarea to fix the start of the year which began in October and he dated years both by Olympiads ... more
                • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 8 13:35
                  Now this site gives a different take on the "Seleucid reckoning" which, to be honest, I have never known to be viewed like this. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/counting-the-years/ Of... more
                • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 8 08:35
                  I think Joe probably got his ideas regarding Eusebius and what calendar he used from Burgess--but see Sacha Stern.... more
        • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignMarianne Luban, Mon Jan 1 11:31
          Studying Latin for four years comes in handy once in awhile, so I was able to translate the version of Pseudo-Dionysius from that language to a more or less accurate degree. Here is the relevant... more
          • Re: Amenhotep II and His ReignRobert Killian, Wed Jan 3 04:26
            This post, by Marianne, can be verified mathematically. "Suggestion", for integrating most of this information. Year 000 b.Abram 1948AM, 1813CJ/BC,+131yrs=1944BC. ----------------------+420yrs---... more
          • ErrataMarianne Luban, Tue Jan 2 14:31
            I should make some corrections to my previous post. They are: "[*Obviously, Pseudo-Dionysius got all this from Artapanus [via Euseubius] but knew that the story had to do with that same Amenhotep who ... more
Click here to receive daily updates