Jon Smyth
"Israel is laid Waste"
Mon May 14, 2018 18:41
174.95.172.255

"The Merneptah stele, aka 'Israel' stele, written by Merneptah, claims Egypt laid Israel waste. But does Merneptahclaim that he did it? ....or does this stele recount instead, all the victories of both Merneptahand his ancestors. The latter view is held by Rohl, and others."

Hello Toby.

It will help an argument if it can be shown that another pharaoh did this. Otherwise, if it is believed that this is only a suggestion without precedent, then it may be seen as special pleading and not taken seriously.

Jon S.


  • "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 14 01:24
    Hello Jaime, Good discussion. You wrote: "Toby: I appreciate your comments on the Israel stele. However, it doesn’t answer my question to you: what could ‘laid in waste’, or ‘devastated’, mean in... more
    • Re: "Israel is laid Waste"Jaime O, Mon May 21 14:19
      Hello Toby, Before anything else: forgive me for the delay aaaaaand… I messed up!! Rohl’s dates for Merneptah are a bit higher, about 875. See the Wikipedia article I sent Marianne. I was working on... more
      • Re: "Israel is laid Waste"Peter James, Thu May 24 04:39
        Jaime, many thanks for distinguishing the work of myself and colleagues (Centuries of Darkness) from that of a.n.other. The latter's so-called "New Chronology" is utterly impossible: Egyptian NK... more
        • Re: "Israel is laid Waste"Jaime O, Sat May 26 12:03
          Hello James thank you for the reply. It's always nice to read something from you, even though we stand on opposite sides of the chronological debate. On the city of Salem - yes, it does seem like it... more
        • Re: "Israel is laid Waste"Herbert Storck, Fri May 25 07:19
          Good to see you still active. I have read a couple of your more recent peer-reviewed papers and have been impressed at how your ideas and research have matured over the years. I no longer believe... more
        • Re: "Israel is laid Waste"Jon Smyth, Thu May 24 18:37
          "On the name Shishak, its possible relation to a shortened version of Ramesses (III and not II!!) and other matters discussed here recently, see the papers both pro and contra in the published... more
      • Re: "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 21 23:09
        Hello Jaime, You have no need to apologize for any delay. The collegiate has the busiest schedule in life. Thanks for the fine discussion. I regret to say that I must bow out of this discussion at... more
        • Re: "Israel is laid Waste"Jaime O, Sat May 26 11:53
          Hi Toby At least we got to tackle some points. Maybe we will continue this discussion somewhere else, some other time. I can already tell the Israel stele and the Karnak relifs will intrigue you,... more
    • "Israel is laid Waste" — Jon Smyth, Mon May 14 18:41
      • re: "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 10:26
        Jon wrote: "The Merneptah stele, aka 'Israel' stele, written by Merneptah, claims Egypt laid Israel waste. But does Merneptahclaim that he did it? ....or does this stele recount instead, all the... more
        • re: "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 11:13
          Faulkner's dictionary is a good place to find where Egyptian words are attested. "fk" is given by Faulkner as "be empty" and the source he gives there is the Leiden Papyrus, "The Admonitions of a... more
          • re: "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 11:40
            The Kamose text uses "fkw" in this context, which has been translated as "No man can settle down, when despoiled by the taxes of the Asiatics". [bAkw stiw].
      • "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 14 18:54
        Hello Jon, Me: "The Merneptah stele, aka 'Israel' stele, written by Merneptah, claims Egypt laid Israel waste. But does Merneptahclaim that he did it? ....or does this stele recount instead, all the... more
        • "Israel is laid Waste"Jon Smyth, Sun May 20 20:07
          Toby, you wrote: "Ramesses, Merneptah's ancestor was likely the Pharoah that laid Israel waste. He has a relief on the Mortuary Temple at Karnak showing that. It has Egyptian and Israelie Chariots in ... more
          • "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 21 23:06
            Hello Jon Smyth, Thanks for the tips on Yurco etc. I regret to say that I must bow out of this discussion at the request of the list owner who would like this discussion relegated to the New... more
        • "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 10:40
          Toby wrote: "BTW, I KNOW that according to Conventional Egyptian Chronology, the chariot battle with ISrael couldn't have occured. The only way this relief makes sense is if Rameses lived 250 years... more
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