Marianne Luban
re: "Israel is laid Waste"
Tue May 15, 2018 10:26
75.169.173.8

Jon wrote:


"The Merneptah stele, aka 'Israel' stele, written by Merneptah, claims Egypt laid Israel waste. But does Merneptahclaim that he did it? ....or does this stele recount instead, all the victories of both Merneptahand his ancestors. The latter view is held by Rohl, and others."

It says "Israel is it's seed is no more". This entire section of the Merneptah stela is a "poetical piece". In ancient Egypt, writers were judged on their ability to pun and do word-play--the more the better the author. One sees it frequently in the New Kingdom. In Israel and all Hebrew writings, the name is "Yisrael" and so, on the stela, the spelling is "yzriAr". ["YzriAr fkt bn prtw=f"] The word for "seed" used in the text is Egyptian "prtw" [pl]. So where is the pun or word-play there? It's not so apparent except that "seed" in Hebrew is contained in the toponym "Jezreel", יזרעאל--which means "seed of God". But the Egyptians were pretty good about writing Semitic "ayin" with their own /a/ and not the /A/ that is in the writing "yzriAr". So it's a bit strange there. The rest pretty much corresponds to word-play. For example the terms for "Khor" [the place] and "widow" are pretty much alike and that's why Khor has become a widow.

As for "fkt", [its determinative making it something bad on the stela] I don't know why it is written thus [with a final /t/] but I do know that this word has the "hair" determinative in my dictionary and "fk[A]" is given the meaning of "laid waste" there. However, "fkty", with the same determinative, means "shorn one" and refers to a priest with his shaved head. So perhaps the word-play lies in Israel having been "shorn", instead, referring to a sheep-rearing people.

  • "Israel is laid Waste"Jon Smyth, Mon May 14 18:41
    "The Merneptah stele, aka 'Israel' stele, written by Merneptah, claims Egypt laid Israel waste. But does Merneptahclaim that he did it? ....or does this stele recount instead, all the victories of... more
    • re: "Israel is laid Waste" — Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 10:26
      • re: "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 11:13
        Faulkner's dictionary is a good place to find where Egyptian words are attested. "fk" is given by Faulkner as "be empty" and the source he gives there is the Leiden Papyrus, "The Admonitions of a... more
        • re: "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 11:40
          The Kamose text uses "fkw" in this context, which has been translated as "No man can settle down, when despoiled by the taxes of the Asiatics". [bAkw stiw].
    • "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 14 18:54
      Hello Jon, Me: "The Merneptah stele, aka 'Israel' stele, written by Merneptah, claims Egypt laid Israel waste. But does Merneptahclaim that he did it? ....or does this stele recount instead, all the... more
      • "Israel is laid Waste"Jon Smyth, Sun May 20 20:07
        Toby, you wrote: "Ramesses, Merneptah's ancestor was likely the Pharoah that laid Israel waste. He has a relief on the Mortuary Temple at Karnak showing that. It has Egyptian and Israelie Chariots in ... more
        • "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 21 23:06
          Hello Jon Smyth, Thanks for the tips on Yurco etc. I regret to say that I must bow out of this discussion at the request of the list owner who would like this discussion relegated to the New... more
      • "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 10:40
        Toby wrote: "BTW, I KNOW that according to Conventional Egyptian Chronology, the chariot battle with ISrael couldn't have occured. The only way this relief makes sense is if Rameses lived 250 years... more
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