Jon Smyth
"Israel is laid Waste"
Sun May 20, 2018 20:07

Toby, you wrote:

"Ramesses, Merneptah's ancestor was likely the Pharoah that laid Israel waste. He has a relief on the Mortuary Temple at Karnak showing that. It has Egyptian and Israelie Chariots in the battle scene. The rest of the reliefs on the temple correspond to the cities on the Merneptah stele. this is the temple where Merneptah stele was found. AS I understand it there were 2 copies of it. It was a poem. It was written on the back side of one of his ancestors."

When I read this it rang a bell, I knew what you were talking about but it didn't read right. It's taken me this long to find the source.

So you are talking about the Karnak reliefs of Ramesses II, but the latest commentary I know of was by Frank Yurco (this is what I was looking for).

Yurco wrote a paper around 1990 about his research on this relief. He found that the Peace Treaty of Ram. II was surrounded on either side by reliefs. There were four reliefs grouped together supported by an inscription bearing the cartouche of Sety II.

However, beneath this cartouche he found the remains of another, it was that of Amenmesse. Then again, beneath that he found remains of the cartouche of Merneptah.
This inscription had been usurped twice.

Yurco looked for traces of another original beneath that of Merneptah, assuming he would find the name of Ramesses II.
He is satisfied Merneptah is the original.

Three of the four scenes which accompany the inscription are assaults on a fortified city, one is a battle in the open plain.
One of the three fortified location still bears the name Ashkelon.
Yurco feels that these four reliefs are the pictorial versions of Ashkelon, Gezer & Yenoam, from the Merneptah Stela.
The scene in the open plain would then represent the battle with Israel.

It's an interesting proposal, but Yurco makes no mention of the reference to P3-Kanan (Gaza) on the Merneptah Stela.
Surely, if these reliefs are the pictorial representations of the record on the Merneptah Stela, then there should be some relief representing the attack on Gaza?


  • "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 14 18:54
    Hello Jon, Me: "The Merneptah stele, aka 'Israel' stele, written by Merneptah, claims Egypt laid Israel waste. But does Merneptahclaim that he did it? ....or does this stele recount instead, all the... more
    • "Israel is laid Waste" — Jon Smyth, Sun May 20 20:07
      • "Israel is laid Waste"Toby Anderson, Mon May 21 23:06
        Hello Jon Smyth, Thanks for the tips on Yurco etc. I regret to say that I must bow out of this discussion at the request of the list owner who would like this discussion relegated to the New... more
    • "Israel is laid Waste"Marianne Luban, Tue May 15 10:40
      Toby wrote: "BTW, I KNOW that according to Conventional Egyptian Chronology, the chariot battle with ISrael couldn't have occured. The only way this relief makes sense is if Rameses lived 250 years... more
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