Marianne Luban
re: Dynasty 15
Sat Aug 18, 2018 09:36
75.169.151.187

Jon Smyth wrote:

""In a text, the mother of Ahmose is called "the mistress of the islanders of the sea" even though she was a princess of Dynasty 17."

The "islanders" in this context refer to the gezirah's in the extremities of the Delta. These "islanders", in later texts, from Ramesses III down to Piankhi, are identified as "Northerners" (mHtj/mHtt).
"Northerners making a conspiracy in their isles", or "the northerners are restless", all refers to these foreign occupants of gezirah's (isles/islands) within the Delta."

We have been over this more than once and I am sure your take on this is not correct. The wording is "HAw nbwt" and those words referred in several texts to the islanders of the Aegean--foreigners--and sometimes they appeared near the text wearing the costume one would expect to see them in. Otherwise, they are called "HAw nbwt n wD wr" or "the islanders of the sea". The Nile is never referred to as "wD wr", not even once, Jon. "mHtiw" are northerners but NOT the same as the "HAw nbwt" as the latter have the "foreigner" determinative and the former don't. This is strictly your idea and I doubt shared by anyone else for obvious reasons. Why would Queen Ah-hotep be styled "mistress of the gezirahs of the Delta"? Why not just "nbt mHyt" or "mistress of the Northland"? Because she never was! The context of "nbt HAw nbwt" is that Ah-hotep was "caring for Egypt" at some point before Egypt was fully liberated from the Hyksos.

Jon:

"The ceremonial griffon on the axe is likely symbolic of this assumed dominion."


It is not an Egyptian symbol and seen only on this axe in an Egyptian context. It is Minoan.

  • re: Dynasty 15Jon Smyth, Sat Aug 18 08:44
    "In a text, the mother of Ahmose is called "the mistress of the islanders of the sea" even though she was a princess of Dynasty 17." The "islanders" in this context refer to the gezirah's in the... more
    • re: AahotepRich McQuillen, Sat Aug 18 10:44
      "In a text, the mother of Ahmose is called "the mistress of the islanders of the sea" even though she was a princess of Dynasty 17." -- I have a source for a similar statement for this from Bietak.... more
    • re: Dynasty 15 — Marianne Luban, Sat Aug 18 09:36
      • Wadj-wr (again)......was re: 15 Dynasty.Jon Smyth, Mon Aug 20 17:22
        Marianne Luban wrote: "We have been over this more than once and I am sure your take on this is not correct." Yes, I recall some years ago. At that time I believe I urged you to obtain a copy of... more
        • Wadj-wr for the last timeMarianne Luban, Tue Aug 21 10:06
          Jon Wrote: Marianne Luban wrote: "We have been over this more than once and I am sure your take on this is not correct." "Yes, I recall some years ago. At that time I believe I urged you to obtain a... more
          • re: wadj wrJon Smyth, Sun Sep 2 15:40
            My apologies, I missed the last paragraph. Marianne Luban wrote: Another great philologist, Dr. Rainer Hannig, whose German language Egyptian dictionary is the one Egyptologists use [I have it right... more
          • re: wadj wrRich McQuillen, Tue Aug 21 17:57
            "as the Nile when it flows to the sea". Glyphs: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/w%EA%9C%A3%E1%B8%8F-wr I asked my linguist friend if he had an opinion on it. He said the "wadj" is instead "Wetsi", or... more
            • re: wadj wrMarianne Luban, Wed Aug 22 09:54
              Rich wrote: "as the Nile when it flows to the sea". Glyphs: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/w%EA%9C%A3%E1%B8%8F-wr I asked my linguist friend if he had an opinion on it. He said the "wadj" is instead... more
              • re: wadj wrJon Smyth, Sun Sep 2 15:31
                Marianne Luban wrote: "wAD wr" is mostly translated as "great green" due to the greenish color of the waters of the Mediterranean. This has always been a weak argument, even the Egyptians represented ... more
      • re: Dynasty 15Marianne Luban, Sat Aug 18 09:55
        Here are some images of Minoans in Egypt. I do not, however, agree with the dates of James Thomas. https://medium.com/the-bronze-age/the-wandering-tribes-of-the-aegean-96ff9703ce3c
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