Marianne Luban
The List of Eratosthenes
Sat Aug 25, 2018 09:28
75.169.151.187

Rich wrote:

"These Egyptian letters are imprecise. Like Marianne's example of Saophis for Khufu, if it's correct.

If it's correct? Dynasty 4 of Africanus: "Suphis [I] for 63 years. He reared the Great Pyramid..." The Egyptian letters are not imprecise. This has nothing to do with Egyptian hieroglyphs. It has to do with how those who wrote in GREEK rendered the names of the kings of Egypt as they would have been vocalized in their are of Egypt. "Saophis" is the same as "Suphis" but only adds one vagary of pronunciation--which agrees with"Cheops [this last using the southern pronunciation].

Rich:
"K for S. Reasonable;"


Actually, it's /S/ for /x/. Khufu only starts with a letter K in English transliteration. In Egyptian, it's "xwfw". Egyptian has /k/, too, but it's a separate phoneme from /x/. For the last time, it's a well-known fact that in the Delta dialect, /S/ was substituted for /x/. But a Greek cannot say "sh" much less write it with his alphabet. It always becomes "s".



" Probably more reasonable than my 2 generations of Nerferitis. Is it more reasonable than Shebitku and Shabaka? Probably not."


No, no, and no.

" If adding more pharoahs into the mix allows for those as choices, than those are phonetically similar and better."


Only if the name agrees with what the author says it means in Egyptian--or a mistaken meaning due a similarity in Egyptian words. But you don't know Egyptian.

"Now this email was addressed to Marianne... Heracles is mentioned, so I was matching Manetho, who chose Ororkon's. But she can respond for herself."


It's not the same king! Aren't you talking about "Pemphos" ]more correctly Semempses] the "5th king of Thebes" in the list of Eratosthenes? His name is described as meaning "descendant of Herakles--whom the Greeks associated with Horus for unclear reasons. There is no "Osorkon" in this list. There is in Dynasty XXIII, starting with Africanus [and someday people are going to realize Africanus followed another Egyptian historian and not Manetho] of whom it was said "The Egyptians call him Heracles". There is no clue in the name "Osorkon" or his prenomen of Sekhemkheperre as to why that would have been the case. However, clearly "follower of Herakles" does not equate "they call him Herakles". The roster of Erastothenes makes little sense as a kinglist for the most part. If putting someone from Dynasty 23 in with OK pharaohs makes sense to you--then that's just great. But if you don't believe I know what I'm talking about when it comes to Egyptian linguistics by now--there's no point in responding at all.

  • re: pemphosRich McQuillen, Fri Aug 24 19:34
    Hi Ecki, I better give reasons for my connections. Pemphos would be the grandson of another pharoaoh, and the brother of a 4th pharaoh. Choosing Shoshenq for Athothese... is a common "th" for "sh"... more
    • The List of Eratosthenes — Marianne Luban, Sat Aug 25 09:28
      • re: The List of EratosthenesMarianne Luban, Tue Aug 28 10:53
        I wrote: "It's not the same king! Aren't you talking about "Pemphos" [more correctly Semempses] the "5th king of Thebes" in the list of Eratosthenes? His name is described as meaning "descendant of... more
        • re: The List of EratosthenesMarianne Luban, Tue Aug 28 11:23
          Then you can check it against the Abydos List https://pharaoh.se/abydos-king-list and you'll see "Smsw" at #7. If you could real hieroglyphs, it would become clear why there are two kings called... more
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