Joe Baker
Re: Egyptian Leap Year
Sun Nov 25, 2018 06:47
2001:8003:80f6:b300:8559:3dbd:1c9:63ca

Hi Toby

From my last post I want to correct the following paragraph

The date 21/I mw/23 corresponds with the expected non-sighting of the old crescent on 8 May 1457 (Gregorian 25 Apr 1547), for on this date (Sky View Caf at -1456-05-08) the dawn old crescent would not have been seen by sunrise (h=809′35″, DAZ=1114′56″) and hence that day would have been psḏntyw.

It is actually 20/I mw which corresponds with an expected non-sighting of the old crescent on 8 May 1457 (Low Chronology). This 1 day difference is also reflected in the other usual chronologies. So in the High Chronology, 21/I mw/23 corresponds to Julian 16 May 1482 but psḏntyw would have fallen on 15 May, a day earlier. In the Middle Chronology, 21/I mw/23 corresponds to Julian 12 May 1468 but psḏntyw would have fallen on 11 May, a day earlier. I suspect that this was the real reason why Parker accepted an emendment of 21 to 20.

Now at Megiddo, the waning crescent on the day before the said psḏntyw (that is on 20/I mw), in the High Chronology (15 May, alt=2, DAZ=13) and in the Middle Chronology (11 May, alt=4, DAZ=6) would have clearly been invisible (and so 20/I mw should have been called psḏntyw). However, in the case of the Low Chronology for 8 May, the moon parameters were alt=8, DAZ=12 which would place them just below the curve of invisibility. So one would expect that probability would favour it not being seen. However, since the curve is one of best fit, there will be times when an alt and DAZ just below the line would be observed, particularly if conditions were extremely good and/or a foreign observers elevation (at Megiddo) was higher than normal.

Just my thought on the statement that the day of the battle was the same as the exact day of psḏntyw. This only make sense if the previous day had been the 29th day of the lunar month. For only on the 29th lunar day could one query if the following day was to be either the 30th day of that lunar month or the 1st day (psḏntyw) of the following lunar month. Only on the following morning would an observation or non-observation of a crescent confirm this query. Thus when the scribe emphasise that this day was psḏntyw he also confirms that the previous lunar month had 29 days (not 30). The statement does not make sense if the previous day had been the 30th day of the lunar month because in that case the new day would unquestionably have been psḏntyw.

Regards Joe


  • Re: Egyptian Leap YearJoe Baker, Tue Nov 20 06:44
    Hi Toby As I said before, Krauss' method (as he states it) seems to preclude sunrise: "In general new or old crescent becomes visible between sunset and moonset (new crescent), or between moonrise... more
    • Re: Egyptian Leap Year — Joe Baker, Sun Nov 25 06:47
      • New Moon in 23 Thutmose III at MegiddoToby Charles Anderson, Fri Dec 14 17:27
        Hello Joe, I am just now replying to your New Moon, Thutmose III, year 23, battle at Megiddo postings as I have just finished expanding my Excel Egyptian daily calendar back to around 2200bc. You:... more
        • Re: New Moon in 23 Thutmose III at MegiddoAnonymous, Sun Dec 16 21:43
          Hello, I've had a chance to develop my original and preliminary posting. Gerard Gertoux (starting on pg 4, Gerard Gertoux "THE AKHENATEN'S REIGN: AN EGYPTOLOGICAL DELIRIUM") dates Thumose III using... more
      • Thutmose III Decrees It Must Be MayMarianne Luban, Wed Nov 28 10:09
        Joe wrote: "It is actually 20/I mw which corresponds with an ex pected non-sighting of the old crescent on 8 May 1457 (Low Chronology). This 1 day difference is also reflected in the other usual... more
      • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Mon Nov 26 11:15
        Joe wrote: "Just my thought on the statement that the day of the battle was the same as the exact day of psḏntyw. This only make sense if the previous day had been the 29th day of the lunar... more
        • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Mon Dec 3 11:05
          I accidentally found proof that the Egyptians commemorated a "Hb n psDntiw" at home--although I still have no idea why other than it was the sign of a new month. This was while I was studying the... more
          • Re: Egyptian Leap YearJoe Baker, Wed Dec 5 00:58
            Hi Marianne So now that you have found an Egyptian day 1 psḏntyw festival, do you still hold that the celebration mentioned at Megiddo was a purely Canaanite celebration? If so bear in mind... more
            • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Wed Dec 5 16:13
              Joe Baker: "So now that you have found an Egyptian day 1 psḏntyw festival, do you still hold that the celebration mentioned at Megiddo was a purely Canaanite celebration? If so bear in mind... more
              • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Wed Dec 5 16:19
                Actually, to be more precise, (ḫd) means "month"--the course of the phases of the moon.
                • ḥdJoe Baker, Mon Jan 7 06:44
                  Hi Marianne Actually, to be more precise, (ḫd) means "month"--the course of the phases of the moon The normal Semitic word for month derives from the root wrḫ , hence Akkadian... more
        • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Mon Nov 26 14:45
          Here are the Hebrew months and the number of days they contain: https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/jewish-calendar.html
    • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Tue Nov 20 14:32
      Joe wrote: "I have discussed this text before. Originally it was assumed that the date 21/I mw/23 was a mistake for 20/I mw/23. However Lello (Glenn Lello, Thutmose IIIs First Lunar Date, JNES... more
      • Re: Egyptian Leap YearJaap Titulaer, Wed Nov 21 02:57
        Hi Marianne, "The psDntiw was an unlucky day and deliberately omitted from the king's annals--and that's one reason why Year 22/23 must be 1482 BCE instead." I see you are using a reign start of 1504 ... more
        • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Wed Nov 21 10:05
          Jaap wrote that I wrote in my paper: "The psDntiw was an unlucky day and deliberately omitted from the king's annals--and that's one reason why Year 22/23 must be 1482 BCE instead." In your paper you ... more
          • Re: Egyptian Leap YearJaap Titulaer, Wed Nov 21 10:47
            >> There is no observation on the day of the psDntiw because it means "no moon". What we call the "new moon" is actually "no moon"--and there was none as you can see here. Yeah duh, of course. That... more
            • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Wed Nov 21 12:58
              I wrote: "And that happened not on May 15th (I Shemu 20 in 1482 BC), but on May 16th (I Shemu 21) in 1482 BC." Jaap: "It was Parker who argued that the Egyptians started the month on a new moon by... more
              • Re: Egyptian Leap YearAnonymous, Wed Nov 21 16:31
                >> I doubt the scribe who recorded the annals of the campaign of Thutmose III just omitted a day for no reason at all. I believe in the "unlucky day" theory which is the only explanation besides... more
                • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Thu Nov 22 10:53
                  I wrote: >> I doubt the scribe who recorded the annals of the campaign of Thutmose III just omitted a day for no reason at all. I believe in the "unlucky day" theory which is the only explanation... more
                • Re: Egyptian Leap YearJaap Titulaer, Wed Nov 21 16:32
                  Sorry, that was me, not Anon. And it is not even the 20th, but the 21st ! :)
              • Re: Egyptian Leap YearJaap Titulaer, Wed Nov 21 15:54
                Hi Marianne, >> Why 1481? How, if he began his reign in 1504 [as he does by the High Chronology and I am not the first to come up with that date] does 1481 get to be his Year 22? Not by my math! 25... more
              • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Wed Nov 21 15:10
                I think I mixed Paul Carlisle up with someone else. I don't think he worked for NASA [at least it doesn't say that in his brief bio now]. He is a computer scientist and mathematician.
          • Re: Egyptian Leap YearMarianne Luban, Wed Nov 21 10:14
            http://www.paulcarlisle.net/mooncalendar/ Here, if one moves ones cursor over the moon phases on the calendar, it tells you exactly when the psDntiw or "new moon" was. There is no moon to be... more
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