Marianne Luban
re: Evidence for the Length of Reigns of Akhenaten's Success
Sat Jan 26, 2019 18:02
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Since I began to concentrate on Smenkhkare, a whole new world of understanding has opened up. For instance, in the tomb of Tutankhamen, KV62, there was a container which Reeves called The Painted Box. Among its contents was a child-sized glove and what Carter termed a "tiny garment" decorated with gold sequins on which the names of King Ankhkheperure and his queen, Meritaten, had been incised. I think it's a fair deduction that the clothes had belonged to Tutankhamen as a child. There was even the little crook and flail that he had once used for scepters prior to getting some bigger ones when he grew older.


The last time I checked, Dodson was sticking to the theory that Smenkhkare had become a coregent with Akhenaten around the latter's Year 12--a scenario I never much liked. Dodson bases this on the way things look to him in the tomb of Meryre II, where Smenkhkare was supposed to be depicted but nothing was completed except the outline drawing. But, if Tutankhaten/Tutankhamen had been a baby at this time, why would his little outfit have been decorated with sequins that bore the names of Smenkhkare and Meritaten? [Don't forget, Tut's parents were a brother and a sister, both children of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye. If Akhenaten had a son of his own, why would his brother have been created a coregent?] I can understand why Dodson reached his conclusion, but I think he's mistaken. Smenkhkare was a coregent, probably, but not until Akhenaten's last Year, 17, when Meritaten's husband was chosen. Little Tut was not a suitable husband for her at any point and Meritaten was intended to be queen. Tut would have to wait his turn or, if Smenkhkare had a son, be bypassed. He was only four or five and too young for consideration.


So the little prince wore his fancy garment during the sole reign of Smenkhkare and nobody else. Smenkhkare died within two years, had no son, after all, so that left Tutankhamen, the heir apparent--still no more than about six or so. Enter the regent, Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten.

  • "The actual successor of Akhenaten seems to have been Smenkhkare, very likely his eldest son by a wife other than Nefertiti, perhaps Kiya" -- Great Article, as always! Orus is confusing to me as is... more
    • Hi Rich The thing that disturbs me about this (H)Orus pharoah, is the story from Pausanias: "Orus 1. The first king of the Troezenians, whose land was then called Oraea. He was succeeded by Althepus. ... more
      • Hi Joe, I applaud the attempt. One of the problems is that this list is flawed and we have to fill in the blanks to try to correct it. And each of us, you, me, and MaryAnn are filling in the blanks... more
        • Hi Rich Rathotis looks nothing like Tutankhamen. It looks like Nefertiti or Meritaten. If you look at the royal names in Manetho you can see they are made up of praenomens (encased within the “King... more
          • re: Rhathôt-isRich McQuillen, Sat Mar 2 15:00
            Hi Marianne, My sincerest apologies on misspelling your name. I was talking to a different person name MaryAnn earlier in the day and was careless. ****** Hi Joe, Thanks for clarifying. Taking the... more
          • Joe wrote: "However the name Rhathôtis can be seen to be formed by fragmentation of Tutankhamun’s praenomen and nomen cartouches.That is [Neb-kheperu]-Ra Tut-[ankh-Amun] ⟹ Ra Tut ⟹... more
        • Rich wrote: "Hi Joe, I applaud the attempt. One of the problems is that this list is flawed and we have to fill in the blanks to try to correct it. And each of us, you, me, and MaryAnn are filling in ... more
          • A Hittite King of EgyptJoe Baker, Sun Apr 7 03:01
            Hi Marianne And why should a Hittite become a king of Egypt, taking precedence over a royal prince of the house of Dynasty 18? From the first letter of the Egyptian queen, delivered by ambassador... more
            • Re:A Hittite King of EgyptMarianne Luban, Mon Apr 8 15:21
              Joe Baker wrote: I wrote: "And why should a Hittite become a king of Egypt, taking precedence over a royal prince of the house of Dynasty 18?" Joe: "From the first letter of the Egyptian queen,... more
              • Re:A Hittite King of EgyptJoe Baker, Tue Apr 16 07:37
                Hi Marianne Yes we are going over old grounds that prove time and again that the king who died just before the Hittite raid against Amqa was Akhenaten. It is just that you have not moved on from the... more
                • Re:A Hittite King of EgyptMarianne Luban, Thu Apr 18 16:54
                  Joe Baker wrote: "Yes we are going over old grounds that prove time and again that the king who died just before the Hittite raid against Amqa was Akhenaten. It is just that you have not moved on... more
                  • Re:A Hittite King of EgyptJoe Baker, Fri Apr 19 20:30
                    Hi Marianne The first thing is you and your baffling inability to grasp--no matter how many times it is explained to you-- that the first element in the prenomen Neferkheperure is never going to be... more
                    • Re:A Hittite King of EgyptMarianne Luban, Mon Apr 22 20:43
                      Joe Baker: My analysis of the time lines of the Daḫamunzu incident changes by about a week if one assumes she resided at Memphis rather than Amarna, for I assume only a 8 day return (boat)... more
              • Re:A Hittite King of EgyptAnonymous, Tue Apr 16 07:32
                Hi Marianne Yes we are going over old grounds that prove time and again that the king who died just before the Hittite raid against Amqa was Akhenaten. It is just that you have not moved on from the... more
              • Re:A Hittite King of EgyptRich McQuillen, Mon Apr 8 19:03
                "You cannot get around the fact that Mursili wrote that the king of Egypt who had just died was "Piphurriyas"--which only fits to Tutankhamun!" -- That is new information for me. Thanks. "So an... more
                • Re: A Hittite King of EgyptRobert P. Killian, Tue Apr 9 02:13
                  My "Chronicle" of Sequential Biblical Events 'shows' that the King of Egypt, Tutankamun died in his 9/10th year: 2570AM, which is: 1191 CJ/BC, + 131yrs = 1323BC. Then, Suppiluliuma I died in the next ... more
      • Joe wrote: "Later copyists of Manetho recorded the name Ôros with an initial psili (smooth breathing) diacritic, that is, there was no initial /h/ sound. If they had wanted to have it sounded as... more
        • Eusebius‘ 18th dynastyJoe Baker, Sat Mar 9 02:55
          Hi Marianne Amenhotep II was omitted in Josephus, Theophilus, and even Africanus--but not by Eusebius. I am not seeing this. The full version of Eusebius’ two volume “Pantodapê Istoria” (Universal... more
          • Eusebius‘ 18th dynastyMarianne Luban, Sun Mar 10 12:04
            Joe: "I am not seeing this." That's because you refuse to acknowledge any new research. >For the other extracts from the Manetho Epitome King List, see Waddell’s book - pages 110-113 (from Africanus... more
          • re: AmensisRich McQuillen, Sat Mar 9 18:29
            "Amenses = the ḥmt-nsw Ḥatšepsut" -- This is a reasonable possibility. I've chosen someone else, Ahmosi, for this one. This person is called kings sister, and I don't think that fits with ... more
            • re: AmensisMarianne Luban, Sun Mar 10 12:16
              Rich wrote: "hmt-nsw, kings wife, is a title, and a brilliant connection. Ahmosi was also a kings wife, with this same title. But why would every other name be a name and not a title. Now Ahmosi... more
    • re: Evidence for the Length of Reigns of Akhenaten's Success — Marianne Luban, Sat Jan 26 18:02
      • Hi Marianne For instance, in the tomb of Tutankhamen, KV62, there was a container which Reeves called The Painted Box. Among its contents was a child-sized glove and what Carter termed a "tiny... more
      • I agree that the "tiny garment" is important, see may mails 12 and 13 April 2010 under this heading. Concerning the statement "Tut's parents were a brother and a sister", I talked to Pääbo a few... more
        • Werner wrote: "Concerning the statement "Tut's parents were a brother and a sister", I talked to Pääbo a few months ago about the pharao DNA analysis by Pusch and Zink. Pääbo thought that it is... more
          • re: Zink and PuschRich McQuillen, Tue Jan 29 19:04
            It looks like this is the study being discussed, from 2010. I'm playing catch up. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41451669_Ancestry_and_Pathology_in_King_Tutankhamun's_Family
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