Toby Charles Anderson
Shabaka & Shabataka
Thu Aug 15, 2019 17:54

Hello Jaap,

Sorry about misspelling your name. And thanks for the link to Shebitku. It has many things to ponder. FWIW, I did, in fact, read wikipedia on shabaka.

Both wikipedia sites list Joe Baker, owner of this list. Wikipedia references Joe's 9 reasons of said reversal, and I have studied this, and have been, one by one disputing each of these reasons. At least 1 of the 9 reasons is Herodotus. Another reason regards the the Sarappeum tombs and their apis bulls.... which I've also written about. I believe I have covered about 75% of Joes 9 reasons.

Jaap, do you consider Joe Baker's article based on primary evidence?

Beside's Joe, I've studied Joe's referrals, namely Jean Frederick Brunet. Is he a good source?

I'm writing a paper on this, and so far I have quotes from 11 primary and 11 secondary sources, to wit:


I. TANG-I-VAR Inscription: lines 17 to 24
II. APIS Bull Inscriptions
III. Kawa I Temple Inscriptions
IV. Sargon's Palace Room Inscriptions - J.E.Reade 'Sargon's Campaigns'
V. Egyptian Inscriptions
vi. Bible
VII. Yamani/Imanni, king of Ashdod
viii. Bakenrenef' Year 1 = 729bc per Egyptian Papyrus, catalogued as CtYBR 2885
iX. Sargon’s sea battle with Ionia/Cilitia – Sargon Palace Inscription
X. Nabatan King List –
XI. Manetho Fragments 64 & 65 on Bekenranef and ‘Shabako’ or ‘Shabataka’

I. David Rohl and Mohamed Ibrahim "Apis and the Serapeum"
II. Jean-Frederic Brunet, "The XXIInd and XXVth Dynasties Apis Burial Conundrum"
III. Ad Thijs "The Lunar Eclipse of Takelot II and the Chronology of teh Libyan Period"
IV. Gerard Gertoux
V. J. Kahn (2001), "The Inscription of Sargon ii at Tang-i Var and the Chronology of Dynasty 25" Orientalia, 70(1), 1-18
VI. Wikipedia.
VII. J.E.Reade The Nubians in Sargon's Palace sculptures and inscriptions
VII. Yamani/Imanni, king of Ashdod
VIII. Taharqa, age 20, co-reign with Shabataka
IX. Joe Baker: Shabaka – Shabatak reversal
X. Herodotus, Manetho, & the Shabaka year 2 Serapeum Stela
XI. Dates within the Tang-i-Var inscription


  • Shabaka & ShabatakaJaap Titulaer, Thu Aug 15 11:24
    Hi Toby, First, my name is Titulaer, not Titalar ;) Second, the reconstruction of D25, including the order of the reinging kings is based on primary data, not any late secondary or tertiary sources... more
    • Shabaka & Shabataka — Toby Charles Anderson, Thu Aug 15 17:54
      • Shabaka & ShabatakaJaap Titulaer, Fri Aug 16 06:11
        Hi Toby, I'm on holiday, so I'm without access to my computer or even a proper keyboard... Working from memory here. The Shabataka issue was discussed a lot two decades ago (at ANE, later a.o. here), ... more
        • Primary Tang-i-var Shabaka & ShabatakaToby Charles Anderson, Sat Aug 17 15:43
          Hello Jaap, You wrote: "Assuming that Shabataka was second his reign would need to be stretched to 16 years, from 706 to 690, with at least 13 years of those without any attestation!" I will keep... more
        • Shabaka & ShabatakaJaap Titulaer, Fri Aug 16 06:44
          Hi Toby, I've found your #viii, but that is a secondary or even tertiary text. Discussed here... more
          • Shabaka & ShabatakaJaap Titulaer, Fri Aug 16 07:02
            Hi Toby, An extra comment on CtYBR2885, it is a demotic text and is read as given 203 years. AFAIK demotic 3 looks a lot like 7 in demotic. Hence the correct meaning may be 207 years. I have Tefnakht ... more
            • 203 years of CtYBR2885 from Bakenrenef to PsammetichusToby Charles Anderson, Sat Aug 17 14:09
              Hi Jaap, There were several discussions on this list regarding the 203 years of CtYBR2885 from Bakenrenef to Psammetichus. The specific one I was referring to was from Ian Onvlee, which I give below... more
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