Ian
Re: Some notes on Shebitqu
Thu Jun 26, 2003 15:12
68.41.191.114 (XFF: 202.148.94.2)

Dear Fred,

thanks for your prompt response.

Why do you want to see a usurper in Shabaqo? We know his relative placement generationwise and his place in the genealogy. In spite of many questionmarks, the Kushite succession of that time has a clear tendency to go laterally before it goes vertically.

You are right, I mixed two sources here. Taharqo was "one among the brethren" of Shebitqo, but there is no proof that Shebitqo is the falcon who flew off to heaven on the other stela. Nevertheless, don't you think it is more likely that the king in the second document is still Shebitqo rather than someone else. Note that if Taharqo took over after a usurping Shabaqo we would rather expect a more detailed and less matter-of-fact description of the new king's takeover. He could be avenging his cousin and he could pose as a restorer of justice. But that is not the case.

You cannot exclude the possibility that Taharqo does not speak of Shabaqo because the latter had died before Taharqo assumed any responsibilities that he wants to tell us about (his first state task seems to have been bringing an army to Shebitqo when he was 20 years old). If Shabaqo was an interloper, as I mentioned above, there would have been good reason to enhance Taharqo's reputation by praising him for getting rid of the usurper.

Best, Ian

  • Re: Some notes on ShebitquFred, Thu Jun 26 14:43
    Dear Ian, All your material is good and well-known, and in fact it is the same as mine, but I consider that there is no definite proof. Some comments : Ian :But Shebitqu belong in the 3rd generation... more
    • Re: Some notes on Shebitqu — Ian, Thu Jun 26 15:12
      • Re: Some notes on ShebitquFred, Thu Jun 26 15:59
        Dear Ian, What i want to say on this matter is that the sources leave a little possibility that the order can be reversed. The traditionnal order is only the result of cruising two data with the... more
        • Re: Some notes on ShebitquIan, Thu Jun 26 21:06
          Dear Fred, I think the possibility exists, but it is very very slim. There are still a number of points that trouble me. 1. Can you comment on your particular reasons for abandoning the synchronism... more
          • Re: Some notes on ShebitquFred, Fri Jun 27 08:43
            Dear Ian, Some quick comments 1. Can you comment on your particular reasons for abandoning the synchronism Shabaqo-Bakenranef, which you defended in the past. FP : the traditionnal synchronism comes... more
            • Re: Some notes on ShebitquIan, Fri Jun 27 09:32
              Dear Fred, 1. On the Bakenranef - Shabaqo synchronism. I am familiar with the arguments against it, but I am still willing to accept the conclusion that we have a Year 6 - Year 2 synchronism. The... more
              • Re: Some notes on ShebitquFred, Sat Jun 28 05:07
                Dear ian, some errors...: Ian : We have no idea who nominated Amenirdis I, but we do know that she became the God's Wife of Amun (as opposed to the apprentice) in the reign of her brother Shabaqo. We ... more
                • Re: Some notes on ShebitquIan, Sat Jun 28 08:38
                  Dear Fred, 1. According to Morkot, Shepenwepet I died probably between Year 12 and Year 15 of Shabaqo. Hence Amenirdis I became God's Wife in that reign. 2. Shepenwepet I is depicted in the inner... more
                  • Shabaqo-Shebitqo againIan, Sun Jun 29 22:42
                    I recently came across a point that does not seem to have been covered by our recent discussion of whether or not to invert the traditional order of Shabaqo and Shebitqo within the 25th Dynasty. I am ... more
                    • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo againAnonymous, Mon Jun 30 16:02
                      Hi Ian! I tried to write to you earlier, but your server appears to systematically refuse anything I send to it. Anyway, I've asked Leo to forward the message (about JEA 88 and a very short PS on... more
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