Leo
A Clarification
Fri Jun 27, 2003 03:52
216.113.201.125 (XFF: 202.148.94.2)

As an aside after thinking things through, I still do hope that you FREDERIC or one of his fellow professional classmates will publish "THE CASE" for dating the Berlin Papyrus in the future in GM or another scholarly journal. Who know Fred, if you spark useful discussion on this document, you may even make a name for yourself just as David aston has done in his well-known 1989 JEA paper!!

But after carefully reading Ian's previous post above, I maintain that it is chronologically impossible that the Year 19 Wadi Gasus(WG) king could be Takelot III. As Ian has said, it is likely Nimlot or lesss likely Rudamun. The time-line wld be stretched to beyond the breaking point since most Chronologies place Piye's accession at either 747 BC(Kitchen's version) or 759 BC(Kahn's version that Kitchen has now criticised). But Takelot III's Year 1 should have begun in the mid-770's BC in most Chronologies which could never match the time-line of the Wadi Gasus inscription. (ie. If TIII rules from 775-756 BC, Piye wld either have been in his Year 3 in 756 BC in Kahn's disputed Chronology or Kashta was still the monarch in Nubia(in 756 BC). And how can one fit in Rudamun's short 3? Year reign and Ini's 4-5 Year reign respectively at Thebes given that Kashta was known to have controlled Thebes in the final year of his reign? It cannot be done.

BTW, Fred's new theory that Piye did not rule for 30 Full Years wld make it even more improbable that the WG ruler was Takelot III since Piye's accession wld be pushed back even further away in time from the former Egyptian Pharaoh's reign. IMHO, when Piye took power, Rudamun and Takelot III were surely dead; Ini was perhaps also dead or was only recently overthrown in Thebes by Kashta who then became became the city's new ruler.

PS: Fred, does Broekeman state in his JEA paper why he prefers dating the Year 3 Quay Level Text to Rudamun rather than to Ini's reign given that Ini certainly ruled Thebes for 4-5 Years.I do think QLT #3 belongs to Rudamun due to the utter rare number of recorded Quay texts after TIII's Year 6. But still Ini is still a possibility that should be dismissed without some kind of explanation. (Personally, I suspect the answer may lie with the fact that he follows the Conventional Chronology which gives Rudamun 19 Years of reign)

Thank You.

  • Papyrus Berlin 3048Leo, Thu Jun 26 23:51
    Dear Fred, Personally, I do second Kitchen's reading of the Year 30 bandage but acknowledge that its poor state of preservation does not help us much. I don't see any strong reason why Piye could not ... more
    • A Clarification — Leo, Fri Jun 27 03:52
      • Re: A ClarificationFred, Fri Jun 27 08:56
        Dear leo, Some comments : - the article on Takelto III is not a hope, it is reality, I will send it the next months probably. I thought I had spoken of it earlier... - the n 3 can not be Rudamon,... more
        • Re: A ClarificationIan, Fri Jun 27 09:37
          Dear Fred, Can you please tell me where in Paris one could obtain the new volume of JEA? I have people hunting for it. Although your response to Leo contains some of the answers, I would appreciate... more
          • JEA 88Jean-Fred, Fri Jun 27 12:04
            Dear Ian Just a very quick note! JEA 88 has reached Montreal earlier this week and I'm going to my friend's house tonight in order to have a look at it (my friend is member of the EES who publishes... more
            • JEA 88, correction, and TefnakhtIan, Fri Jun 27 12:23
              Dear Jean-Fred, Thanks for the note, and even though I still hope my friends in Paris turn it up somewhere on St-Michel, I will be very happy to get copies from you should they fail. I will be happy... more
              • Wadi Gasus, Takelot III and JF's offerLeo, Sat Jun 28 02:38
                Hello JF, Fred and All, JF, an offer of help from you wld be appreciated concerning just the Broekeman paper. You stated that there were Four articles of deep interest to you in the more recent JEA... more
                • Dear Leo,and all some comments : Leo :Fred's suggestion that Year 19 of WG could belong to Kashta and Year 12 to Takelot III seems particularly tenous since Amenirdis I(Kashta's Grand daughter) 1)may ... more
                  • Amenirdis I & Ini Si-EseLeo, Sat Jun 28 15:09
                    Oops...Please ignore my other post below with the same title. I must have hit the return key a bit too early. Firstly, my apologies to Fred, I did not recall that Amenirdis I was the Daughter of... more
                    • Re: Amenirdis I & Ini Si-EseLeo, Sat Jun 28 17:33
                      The Year 3 Quay text that Broekeman speaks about wld have been made c.15-20 Years after the Year 6 QLT for Takelot III. Assuming Takelot III had a reign of 19 Years, his Year 19 minus his Year 6 wld... more
                  • Amenirdis I & Ini Si-Ese (nm)Leo, Sat Jun 28 14:36
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