Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo again
Mon Jun 30, 2003 20:04 (XFF:

Hi Jean-Fred,

Try my imladjov@yahoo.com address for future correspondence, I do not know why umich does not like your server.

You wrote: "The group of stelae from some year 4 (Shoshenq V according to Mariette) also bears striking resemblance to the stelae of this "year 6" group, possibly giving us a second "pool" from which to assign texts to a different year 2 Shabaka burial." I am not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that the Year 2 stela dated to Shabaqo's reign was preliminary, or are you questioning the accuracy of the reading?

If in Year 12 at Wasi Gasus Amenirdis I is "Adoratrix of the God," but in Year 12 of Shabaqo at Wadi Hammamat she is "God's Wife of Amun," all we have to do is to check whether these dates have month dates supplied and which comes first. Unfortunately I do not have access to the publication of the Wadi Hammamat graffito, which we do not possess. The reference is: Couyat and Montet, Inscriptions hiéroglyphiques et hératiques du Ouâdi Hammâmât, Mémoires de l'institut français d'archéologie orientale vol. 34 (?), 96, pl. 36, no. 187. Perhaps you could check.

If you accept the conclusion that Amenirdis I was "God's Wife" already in the reign of Shabaqo (perhaps based on the WH graffito) and if she appears exclusively as "Adoratrix of the God" when associated with Shebitqo, the case for placing Shebitqo before Shabaqo would become stronger than it has ever been. But how consistent is this title? The description of the depiction of Shepenwepet I in the Kushite portion of the building seems to me somehow disassociated from Shebitqo and Amenirdis I, who are certainly shown together. Could it not be commemorative?

While I fully agree with the progression of titles postulated by Dodson, I think we have to keep in mind that this system was developed ad hoc. There had been "God's Wives" for centuries, but their role appears to have changed with the appearance of Shepenwepet I and the disappearance of the HPAs in the reign of Takelot III or Rudamun. The sudden appearance of the intermediary title "God's Hand" confirms the gradual development of this system of titles. It seems to me that at the beginning the title "Adoratrix of the God" may have been an epithet applied to the "God's Wife." Therefore the usage of the former title for Amenirdis I in the reign of Shebitqo may not necessarily indicate that she was not the possessor of the title "God's Wife." This requires some further investigation on my part, and I am speculating.

I think the placement of Shebitqo before Shabaqo would create a number of problems. Shabaqo cannot be the son of Shebitqo (which would be necessary if Manetho was correct), and yet he would possibly be his uncle and father-in-law. Everything that we positively know about Shabaqo places him in Piankhy's generation and as Piankhy's immediate successor. Shebitqo is genealogically a mysterious figure except for Manetho's late report that Sebikhos was the son of Sabakon (which does not help much) and the possibility that he married Shabaqo's daughter, the King's Daughter King's Sister and King's Great Wife Istemkheb.

Morkot's comment (page 209 and n. 14 on 318) about the Shabaqo scarab appears less justified to me than those of Kitchen and James. In spite of its conventional language, the scarab clearly speaks of Shabaqo defeating "rebels" in Upper and Lower Egypt, which has nothing to do with a Sinaitic campaign (though it does not exclude one), and which need not be said of a ruler who did not face opposition. Nor are the desert wastes of the Sinai likely to have brought Shabaqo so much gold that he could generously spend on the temple of Amun at Karnak, as explicitly stated in the dedicatory inscription. Such riches could only have been found in the palaces of the local kings and princes of Egypt that Piankhy had subdued but not removed. This is of course an argument based on circumstantial evidence, but not even so much can be made in the case of Shebitqo (nor would the scarab's account make as much sense if Shabaqo was Shebitqo's successor).

Best, Ian

  • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo againAnonymous, Mon Jun 30 16:02
    Hi Ian! I tried to write to you earlier, but your server appears to systematically refuse anything I send to it. Anyway, I've asked Leo to forward the message (about JEA 88 and a very short PS on... more
    • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo againJoe Baker, Wed Jul 2 07:34
      Hi all Well-ll-ll, so Fred is investigating a reversal of Shabaka/Shabataka and seems to be quite enthusiastic about it (he has announced it here and on the NC list). And using many of the arguments... more
      • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo againChris, Wed Jul 2 19:26
        I have just received a copy of an interesting article by Stephanie Dalley, "Yaba, Atalya and the Foreign Policy of Late Assyrian Kings", SAAB 12:2 (1998) 83-98. Its central argument is that these two ... more
        • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo againIan, Wed Jul 2 22:31
          Dear Chris, Shoshenq (Shu-sa-an-qu) was the son-in-law or brother-in-law (hatna sharri) of Sin-ahhe-eriba, but almost certainly in Nineveh, rather than Egypt. He stood as witness to a real estate... more
          • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo againChris, Thu Jul 3 08:38
            ian -- Thanks for the additional information onn this Shoshenq. Re the conclusion that 711 is a TPQ, I have the source on order through ILL and will let you know, but you may well be right. Chris
      • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo. Try it again JoeJoe Baker, Wed Jul 2 07:40
        Hi all Well-ll-ll, so Fred is investigating a reversal of Shabaka/Shabataka and seems to be quite enthusiastic about it (he has announced it here and on the NC list). And using many of the arguments... more
        • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo and RudamunJoe Baker, Wed Jul 2 07:52
          Hi all 1. AFAIK the only objection to my genealogy is that Shepenupet 2 is not the sister of Shabaka. I understand there is an inscription stating this, but does it use a generic term to describe the ... more
          • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo and RudamunIan, Wed Jul 2 18:59
            Hi Joe, I am afraid the objections to your genealogy are far more serious than that. Not only is Shepenupet II not a sister of Shabaqo (she is the sister of Taharqo because she is the daughter of his ... more
    • Re: Shabaqo-Shebitqo again — Ian, Mon Jun 30 20:04
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