Marianne Luban
Re: All Roads Lead to 1570 BC
Thu Feb 14, 2008 09:05
67.150.120.81 (XFF: 81.106.124.212)

Not everyone is in agreement that the "Tempest Stela" of Ahmose I records the eruption of the Theran volcano. [See Allen] I used to argue for that, but I'm not so sure now. And you know where Bietak places the event. Senenmut would have had to consult records, which more than one ancient historian claimed the Egyptians kept of the heavenly positions. If the ceiling reflects a date, it would have had to be a significant one. But the New Moon data can't be ignored, either. Here, once again, are the possible dates. They can only occur in increments of 25 years.

1507
1482
1457

Senenmut's is the prototype of the astronomical ceilings. I don't believe there was anything "random" about it. If you want to ask "how did Senenmut" know the positions of the heavenly bodies, then you'll have to ask "how would anyone", the artist who painted the ceiling. Was that artist an astronomer? The thing was obviously executed according to a plan. Same goes for the northern sky. I like to draw, paint, but I'll be damned if I could execute an astronomical ceiling--unless someone with better knowledge mapped one out for me.

But, if you can do something with those New Moon dates that can lead back to 1613, feel free. But you'll have to take all the data into consideration, including mummified remains. I did.

  • Re: All Roads Lead to 1570 BCTory, Thu Feb 14 02:28
    We have the eruption of Thera in 1613 BCE, an inscription from the reign of Ahmose I seemingly recording its after effects, and Theran pumice in 18th dynasty strata. If the ceiling is a snapshot of... more
    • Re: All Roads Lead to 1570 BC — Marianne Luban, Thu Feb 14 09:05
      • Re: All Roads Lead to 1570 BCTory, Thu Feb 14 09:53
        Good points. I guess if Senenmut had to consult records, as opposed to being an eyewitness of the "event" in 1534, the value of the astronomical ceiling is diminished. For the "snapshot" could be of... more
        • Re: All Roads Lead to 1570 BCGeorge R., Thu Feb 14 10:52
          Hi Tory. You quote some interesting dates for Thutmose III. I'm using this reference for the "Annals of Thutmose III": "The Sacred Books and Early Literature of the East," Prof. Charles F. Horne. New ... more
          • Re: All Roads Lead to 1570 BCTory, Thu Feb 14 11:05
            Hi George, My mistake. Not III-Shemu 9, but I-Shemu 4. This is from an inscription on the 7th pylon, Karnak. Regards, Tory
            • Hatshepsut's Heb-sedMarianne Luban, Thu Feb 14 13:42
              I wrote: 1534 BC is probably the year of the birth of Hatshepsut, herself, if that southern sky has been correctly interpreted. It can work out. Look: 1534 Year of the birth of Hatshepsut 1534 minus... more
              • Astronomical DatingTerry E, Fri Feb 15 05:31
                Dear Marianne, I freely confess my ignorance of things celestial as far as ancient chronology is concerned. But I also confess my great scepticism about this whole subject. I appreciate the... more
                • Re: Astronomical DatingMarianne Luban, Fri Feb 15 16:54
                  TE: I freely confess my ignorance of things celestial as far as ancient chronology is concerned. But I also confess my great scepticism about this whole subject. I appreciate the attraction of trying ... more
                  • Re: Astronomical DatingTerry E, Sat Feb 16 04:29
                    Dear Marianne, Thank you for your comments. First an apology: I did not intend my post to be a blast at you or your chronological views although I realise on re-reading it why you think I might have... more
                  • Astronomical DatingDavid Rice, Sat Feb 16 01:54
                    > Marianne (or others) -- do you have a convenient list of these at hand? -- David Rice
                    • Post Exhilic Sabbath YearsDavid Rice, Sun Feb 17 00:09
                      Hello, all -- a different subject just for a moment. There are different views about the dates on which Sabbath years were kept after the exile. Some conclude that a Sabbath commenced in 38 bc,... more
              • Re: Hatshepsut's Heb-sedTory, Thu Feb 14 17:24
                Yes, that is 'no moon' at dawn on II-Peret 30 in 1530 BCE (8-Mar Julian), and 'no moon' at dawn on I-Shemu 21 in 1532 BCE (28-May Julian). Regards, Tory
                • V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 05:52
                  Another conjunction and date from the very interesting Von Spaeth: http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp
                  • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesTory, Sun Feb 17 06:51
                    So Moshe, born according to Spaeth in 1534, was the historical Senenmut. It seems like that is where Spaeth is headed from what little of his website I have read? There is at least one orthodox rabbi ... more
                    • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 09:38
                      Tory: So Moshe, born according to Spaeth in 1534, was the historical Senenmut. It seems like that is where Spaeth is headed from what little of his website I have read? There is at least one orthodox ... more
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