Marianne Luban
Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of Moses
Sun Feb 17, 2008 22:29
66.53.219.122 (XFF: 81.106.124.212)

You know, this is pretty wild. That date for the birth of Moses works out every time. The Torah says that Moses didn't return to Egypt until he was 80 "because all who had sought his life were dead". 80 years from 1534 comes to 1454, around the time that Amenhotep II received the kingship after T III died. With 1570 as his starting point for the dynasty, P. Clayton gets 1453 as the assession date for A II. That's just a year off--or maybe not even that, depending upon when A II was actually crowned, the civil date vis a vis the New Year, whatever.

Then the Torah says the Hebrews left--430 years after the first ones had come to live in Egypt. That brings us back to 1884 BCE, the time of Amenemhat II and Senusret II. Clayton says of this era, "There is also an apparent increase at this time in the number of Levantine names recorded in Egypt, presumably belonging to those brought in as domestic servants."

Amenhotep II is generally regarded, in retrospect, as a very cruel man, worse than his father. He didn't even have the intellectual leanings of T III to redeem him. But, did he drown in the sea as soon as he became king? Of course not. He was only about 18 when he succeeded and reigned for many years. However, there is something else. One of the last acts, apparently, of the vizier Rekhmire, was the installation of A II on the throne. Rekhmire's family had served the royals for three generations, ever since the grand-father, Amethu [also called "Ahmose", after the "liberator" pharaoh] and his wife, TaAmethu, had risen to importance. The names of these people means "foreigner".
Anyway, the man who changed his name to Ahmose was a "governor of the town and vizier" under Thutmose III and he had a tomb in the Theban necropolis, TT83--as did Rekhmire. All of the sons of this Ahmose became very important men but, after Rekhmire, the family served no more and there is no sign that Rekhmire was ever buried in his own tomb, TT100. Rekhmire was, apparently, the final vizier of Thutmose III and one of the most moving texts from ancient Egypt is in that tomb, evidently the words of TIII to Rekhmire, telling him how important his role as vizier was to the people. But, after Rekhmire, no more viziers from that family, even though Rekhmire had plenty of sons. Just a coincidence? Who knows? But, in AE, eldest sons succeeded their fathers in their offices whenever possible.

  • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of MosesMarianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 10:34
    Oh--and BTW, in my own work, "The Exodus Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends & Rumors from Antiquity Regarding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt" [2003] I also proposed Senenmut as a candidate for... more
    • Re: V. Spaeth and the Birth of Moses — Marianne Luban, Sun Feb 17 22:29
      • But, as usual--disagreement even in antiquityMarianne Luban, Tue Feb 19 06:14
        Naturally, wouldn't you know that some ancient authors, like Eusebius and Artapanus failed to believe that the Hebrews left Egypt 430 years after they had arrived--and that's one of the reasons... more
        • But, as usual -- disagreement in antiquityCullom, Tue Feb 19 19:50
          Hello Marianne, Your comments are very interesting and informative. I think the church historians engaged in a bit of historical revision for political as well as religious reasons. It might have... more
          • Re: But, as usual -- disagreement in antiquityMarianne Luban, Tue Feb 19 23:55
            Cullom: I think the church historians engaged in a bit of historical revision for political as well as religious reasons. It might have seemed preferrable to have Moses and God best a famous king of... more
            • But, as usual -- disagreement in antiquityCullom, Wed Feb 20 18:23
              Hello Marianne, Do you know of any king besides Ahmose and Amenhotep I during the period in question who was succeeded by a son-in-law? I suppose Thutmosis II was succeeded by a son-in-law since his... more
              • Re: But, as usual -- disagreement in antiquityAnonymous, Fri Feb 22 02:02
                Cullom: Do you know of any king besides Ahmose and Amenhotep I during the period in question who was succeeded by a son-in-law? ML: Nope. And Ahmose was succeeded by a son. Cullom: I suppose... more
                • Re: But, as usual -- disagreement in antiquityMarianne Luban, Fri Feb 22 02:13
                  Oops--pressed some wrong button. Hatshepsut, her Speos Artemidos inscription, says the "Aamu" were ensconced at Avaris "with vagabonds among them". Now, the Aamu were realistically depicted in a tomb ... more
                  • But, as usual -- disagreement in antiquityCullom, Sat Feb 23 08:51
                    Hello Marianne, I should have said that Thutmosis I was succeeded by a "son-in-law" since his son Thutmosis II married his daughter Hatshepsut. The story of Abisha is remarkably similar to the story... more
                    • But, as usual -- disagreement in antiquityMarianne Luban, Sat Feb 23 15:55
                      Cullom: In your earlier post you related that Egypt was ruled by Palmanothes AND Chenephres so Chenephres must have been more than an important official. ML: Why? He can have been a local lord.... more
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